Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Here is the thing

head fake or juke should be able to fake out multiple people,

however,

headfake and juke (especially head fake) should not have an effect on a defender more than 3 yards away, and head fake should never and juke rarely have an effect on a defender that is behind or to the side of the HB.

In addition, the effect of head fake should be reduced the faster the back is going, and juke should slow a back down slightly.

Preventing head fake and juke from effecting multiple defenders is using a second wrong to try and create a right.

Agreed. Which was my suggestion on using angles instead of just allowing him to fake 1 guy and Bort said he was considering it. Check back around page 13-15...I'd love to hear your thoughts Rage.

I think the issue is that min/maxing a player just makes juking too powerful. Even if you slow down how often jukes happen, if you can juke everybody within 4 yds of you without fail when you juke, you will score TD's. Players with builds that seem perfect for counteracting jukes were getting juked more frequently then slow linemen. The youtubes posted were highlights over multiple seasons. I have not looked at an entire game, but how many successful jukes happen on average per play in the NFL? I think it might be safe to say less.

do you guys really think bort has to put deliberation or effort into making bad decisions and breaking stuff?

dude was probably just trying to open a .txt file and he broke more stuff, I don't understand all the whining/outrage going on in this thread

Originally posted by Bort


LOL, you just pulled that out of your ass, because it ain't true.

hahaah bort's becoming haggard

he's in "oh shit I might actually have to do some work... sometime... in the next few months" rage





Edit: ok that quote box is hard to work

Originally posted by Darkstrand
Originally posted by Bort



LOL, you just pulled that out of your ass, because it ain't true. Usually it was just the guys who failed their rolls most miserably. It's the same math & progression as it's always been now. Fakes happen when a defender is getting in position to try and make a tackle, and its in a fairly random order as to who gets picked first amongst those in range, based on which defender is acting first against the carrier. If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him. If the tackler is already faked out, he can't get stack-faked, so we can go on to the next guy.
/QUOTE]

hahaah bort's becoming haggard

he's in "oh shit I might actually have to do some work... sometime... in the next few months" rage

to be annoying

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt

Originally posted by PackMan97


Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt



Originally posted by PackMan97




I think it is important to note that this change is only one SUCCESSFUL fake per tick, not one fake chance per tick.

I don't understand. Expand on that bro.

Let's say 5 guys are about to tackle you...you don't pick one to try and fake and that's the only fake you'll try....you will start trying them until you fake one guy or you've failed against all of them.

You don't get one fake chance per tick, you only get one success per tick.

Yeah that is what I thought too... But my back isn't faking people like he was. Just the mere number of successful fakes in any run is significantly reduced right now. That is what I asked Bort if he changed the successful roll value or if he modified the bonus that the Head Fake or Juke SA. But he confirmed he didn't touch any of the bonuses... So I can't explain why my guy isn't faking defenders anymore?

He did elude to more vision checks being required. That may account for what we're experiencing.

The major problem with this is higher vision turns elusive backs into retards.... but at least they'd be juking retards.

Yeah my guy is still just a baby, so it is definitely a lack of vision. I am just surprised that he could fake like a mofo before - on separate ticks - but now rarely is faking anyone. I understand that he made the change so that it is only one player that can bite on a fake per tick, but now my dude is rarely faking anyone - where as before - he was faking guys all the way down the field - over the course of multiple ticks. Just seems much harder to even get a successful fake roll anywhere on the field, regardless of the tick or defender location.

Originally posted by Darkstrand
I don't understand all the whining

qfirony

Originally posted by jrry32


Agreed. Which was my suggestion on using angles instead of just allowing him to fake 1 guy and Bort said he was considering it. Check back around page 13-15...I'd love to hear your thoughts Rage.


I like your input, but I think I may be talking about something a little different. I think yours was dealing more with who HB could see to try and fake. IMO there should be-

1. A max range for head fake/juke to work in. The farther away a defender is from the ball carrier, the less likely he is to be effected.

2. I like your cone idea, but I'm not sure if this is part of it, but head fake should only have about a 120 deg cone of effectiveness and juke about a 150 degree cone of effectiveness (60/75 degrees to either side of front of HB). A player behind or beside a HB is not going to stop because of one of these moves.

Also, I'm thinking that the quick cut SA should not only allow a player to change direction with less loss of speed, but should also be an SA that makes ball carriers plant and changing direction more. This would have more of an effect on defenders farther away as it would cause defenders to overshoot by having an improper angle.

From my football experience

head fake = HB moving head opposite body to try and get defender to follow head. Defenders are taught early to look at torso instead of head so this should be least effective against defenders with higher vision.

juke = shuffling feet and moving hips side to side. Vision isn't enough to combat this. High agility is also needed to be able to move which ever way the HB moves, but this move also forces HB to slow down.

quick cut = ability to plant foot and change direction on a dime. This move is more effective the faster the defender is moving toward the HB, because it uses defenders momentum against him. Like spin, this should be more effective based on the HBs agility, but this should also require a lot of vision in the HB to effectively calculate the angle defenders are taking to make the tackle.

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt


Yeah my guy is still just a baby, so it is definitely a lack of vision. I am just surprised that he could fake like a mofo before - on separate ticks - but now rarely is faking anyone. I understand that he made the change so that it is only one player that can bite on a fake per tick, but now my dude is rarely faking anyone - where as before - he was faking guys all the way down the field - over the course of multiple ticks. Just seems much harder to even get a successful fake roll anywhere on the field, regardless of the tick or defender location.

well think about it...you went from being able to fake
Tick one: Roll for fake on a, b, c, d, e...a got faked
Tick two: Roll for fake on b,c,d,e...failed roll
Tick three: Roll for fake on b,c,d,e...faked b and e

to

Tick one:Roll for fake on a...succeed
Tick two:Roll for fake on b...failed
Tick three: Roll for fake on b...succeed

You essentially went from having a roll for a bunch of guys per tick to one roll/tick which means a lot less rolls which also means a lot less fakes...

What is with all this quote fail.

Ban Darkstrand, imo. The next avatar craze to sweep GLB nation.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by jrry32



Agreed. Which was my suggestion on using angles instead of just allowing him to fake 1 guy and Bort said he was considering it. Check back around page 13-15...I'd love to hear your thoughts Rage.


I like your input, but I think I may be talking about something a little different. I think yours was dealing more with who HB could see to try and fake. IMO there should be-

1. A max range for head fake/juke to work in. The farther away a defender is from the ball carrier, the less likely he is to be effected.

2. I like your cone idea, but I'm not sure if this is part of it, but head fake should only have about a 120 deg cone of effectiveness and juke about a 150 degree cone of effectiveness (60/75 degrees to either side of front of HB). A player behind or beside a HB is not going to stop because of one of these moves.

Also, I'm thinking that the quick cut SA should not only allow a player to change direction with less loss of speed, but should also be an SA that makes ball carriers plant and changing direction more. This would have more of an effect on defenders farther away as it would cause defenders to overshoot by having an improper angle.

From my football experience

head fake = HB moving head opposite body to try and get defender to follow head. Defenders are taught early to look at torso instead of head so this should be least effective against defenders with higher vision.

juke = shuffling feet and moving hips side to side. Vision isn't enough to combat this. High agility is also needed to be able to move which ever way the HB moves, but this move also forces HB to slow down.

quick cut = ability to plant foot and change direction on a dime. This move is more effective the faster the defender is moving toward the HB, because it uses defenders momentum against him. Like spin, this should be more effective based on the HBs agility, but this should also require a lot of vision in the HB to effectively calculate the angle defenders are taking to make the tackle.

So basically Quick Cut = Stutter Step to Cut Back. And yea, I understood we were talking about different things but I wanted to hear your feedback on what I was proposing, lol.

Originally posted by Darkstrand
do you guys really think bort has to put deliberation or effort into making bad decisions and breaking stuff?

dude was probably just trying to open a .txt file and he broke more stuff, I don't understand all the whining/outrage going on in this thread

And nobody understands any of the threads you started. Do you you wine in all forums just to take up space and to get noticed?








That is all

I like the quick cut idea, I have often wondered why it really wasnt cutting, but meh. glad you brought it up.

Originally posted by SikoraP13
Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt



Yeah my guy is still just a baby, so it is definitely a lack of vision. I am just surprised that he could fake like a mofo before - on separate ticks - but now rarely is faking anyone. I understand that he made the change so that it is only one player that can bite on a fake per tick, but now my dude is rarely faking anyone - where as before - he was faking guys all the way down the field - over the course of multiple ticks. Just seems much harder to even get a successful fake roll anywhere on the field, regardless of the tick or defender location.

well think about it...you went from being able to fake
Tick one: Roll for fake on a, b, c, d, e...a got faked
Tick two: Roll for fake on b,c,d,e...failed roll
Tick three: Roll for fake on b,c,d,e...faked b and e

to

Tick one:Roll for fake on a...succeed
Tick two:Roll for fake on b...failed
Tick three: Roll for fake on b...succeed

You essentially went from having a roll for a bunch of guys per tick to one roll/tick which means a lot less rolls which also means a lot less fakes...

Wait did I miss something? Is there only 'one' roll per tick? I thought if you had enough vision you would roll on a, b, c, d, e, etc... per tick until one of them was successful. And then on the very next tick, you wold re-roll a to e again.

The point being that Bort only allowed you to have one successful roll per tick... But you still had multiple rolls per tick.

My point is that it doesn't seem like my guy is having successful rolls - period. On any tick after the change.

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt
Originally posted by SikoraP13

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt




Yeah my guy is still just a baby, so it is definitely a lack of vision. I am just surprised that he could fake like a mofo before - on separate ticks - but now rarely is faking anyone. I understand that he made the change so that it is only one player that can bite on a fake per tick, but now my dude is rarely faking anyone - where as before - he was faking guys all the way down the field - over the course of multiple ticks. Just seems much harder to even get a successful fake roll anywhere on the field, regardless of the tick or defender location.

well think about it...you went from being able to fake
Tick one: Roll for fake on a, b, c, d, e...a got faked
Tick two: Roll for fake on b,c,d,e...failed roll
Tick three: Roll for fake on b,c,d,e...faked b and e

to

Tick one:Roll for fake on a...succeed
Tick two:Roll for fake on b...failed
Tick three: Roll for fake on b...succeed

You essentially went from having a roll for a bunch of guys per tick to one roll/tick which means a lot less rolls which also means a lot less fakes...

Wait did I miss something? Is there only 'one' roll per tick? I thought if you had enough vision you would roll on a, b, c, d, e, etc... per tick until one of them was successful. And then on the very next tick, you wold re-roll a to e again.

The point being that Bort only allowed you to have one successful roll per tick... But you still had multiple rolls per tick.

My point is that it doesn't seem like my guy is having successful rolls - period. On any tick after the change.

Ditto. I've been nerfed.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player_game_log.pl?player_id=39804