Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Catullus 16
the whole "i can insult you any way i want and if you don't like it it's your fault" argument seems a little self-serving to me... kind of like "everyone's a little racist", etc.
It isn't self-serving.

It is showing that there's a wide range of being offended or not. Where do you put the line? 20 different forums for 20 different lines?

If you take the 5-6 users in CPL that have a problem with the current CPL line, and put them together, I guarantee that 1-2 of them will have a problem with the new line.

i get the threshold argument, trust me.

what i mean by self-serving is the fact that that argument can be used as a post hoc justification for anything... just like the "everyone's a little racist" allows a person to be as racist as they want to be.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
all of these issues have parallels in real life, of course... we need a criminologist to speed us along.
<-- criminologist

hurry up.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by r87
Also let's clear something up. The 'GG' crowd is like six people.
six active posters, anyway.
there are plenty of people in the CPL that are active on other forums, though. doesn't mean they'll migrate wholesale to a GG subforum, but it wouldn't be completely dead.
heck, you guys might even like it.
pretty baseless imo.

?

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by r87

Also let's clear something up. The 'GG' crowd is like six people.

six active posters, anyway.

there are plenty of people in the CPL that are active on other forums, though. doesn't mean they'll migrate wholesale to a GG subforum, but it wouldn't be completely dead.

heck, you guys might even like it.

I'd absolutely love a "GG" subforum, and that is precisely why the entire concept needs to be re-evaluated.

Right now, a GG thread gets made in CPL, CPL's posters go to it, "flout the rules" and the "GG dots" crowd (as they've been stereotyped) learn that maybe GG threads aren't such a good idea- or they stick to their guns, and develop thicker skin through the experience (sometimes they even turn it around entirely, and troll using GG threads.) However, if you make a GG subforum, I will state under no circumstances will I not troll that forum. I'll troll that sub forum at my most lenient on a bi-weekly basis. It's just something that is going to happen. Now, I'm not a bad troll, in fact I like to think of myself as a competent troll. I once trolled a thread about basic math principles. I'm not going to show up there and say "GTFO" like what happens in CPL, and I feel that ultimately the experience of the forums for the "GG dot" crowd will be worse under those circumstances.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
not my cup of tea but some people do. But liking something tha tisn't against the rules isn't... against the rules.

sure, but don't be surprised at the results.

also... trolling?

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
because they're terrible mods who can't stand people who don't submit to them in every way. They're power-hungry and unprofessional.
You'd have a point if we had mods that were established as good or even decent but these are fucking terrible mods so their horrible behavior is in no way surprising. It wasn't BigT invading our forum, it was voltron. the feudel of mods.
so... mods that agree with you = awesome and mods that disagree with you = terrible, power-hungry, and unprofessional?
this isn't a convincing argument, even if you are right.
I cite such people as Jed and BigT to invalidate your claim. Jed does a lot of disagreeing with me and supporting the administration and other mods when I think he's wrong (and have a suspicion he sometimes knows they're wrong), but he isn't a terrible mod usually.
Hell, voltron, darkus, and NMV have all agreed with me on various occasions, but they were still terrible mods. Bones doesn't generally agree with me and I don't dislike the fellow, but he's a terrible mod. I have never had a run-in with a number of other people, but they're still terrible mods.
I argue with VT all the fucking time, on the other hand, and he's still a pretty good mod. BigT isn't here supporting me and I've been maintaining that he's the best mod (though less active) since we lost Ash.
i'm not sure how this invalidates my claim... especially since i'm not sure i even made one.
i mean, you're the one who specified a population of "fucking terrible mods"... so all you've really done here is furnish a list of people who you're saying aren't in that category.
or maybe i'm missing something here.
You said this:Originally posted by cat

so... mods that agree with you = awesome and mods that disagree with you = terrible, power-hungry, and unprofessional?
looks like a claim to me, and is completely invalidated by me naming mods I argue with a lot who I don't consider terrible.
not really a claim... just clarifying.
and bolded.
the thing you bolded wasn't the claim.

no kidding.

(it's my rejoinder.)

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

not my cup of tea but some people do. But liking something tha tisn't against the rules isn't... against the rules.

sure, but don't be surprised at the results.

also... trolling?

saying "loldots" or "MY DOTS COULD BEAT YOUR DOTS" or linking to something that just says "we don't care" are not trolling.

I mean really, look at CPL's power rankings. They're probably one of the oldest traditions of CPL, and they're still produced every other day, and they're about dots. Not only are they about dots, but they're defended by CPL's "loldots" crowd almost every season, when somebody mentions that they think the ratings are unfair and their team is "underrated"

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by Azure Dreams

because they're terrible mods who can't stand people who don't submit to them in every way. They're power-hungry and unprofessional.
You'd have a point if we had mods that were established as good or even decent but these are fucking terrible mods so their horrible behavior is in no way surprising. It wasn't BigT invading our forum, it was voltron. the feudel of mods.
so... mods that agree with you = awesome and mods that disagree with you = terrible, power-hungry, and unprofessional?
this isn't a convincing argument, even if you are right.
I cite such people as Jed and BigT to invalidate your claim. Jed does a lot of disagreeing with me and supporting the administration and other mods when I think he's wrong (and have a suspicion he sometimes knows they're wrong), but he isn't a terrible mod usually.
Hell, voltron, darkus, and NMV have all agreed with me on various occasions, but they were still terrible mods. Bones doesn't generally agree with me and I don't dislike the fellow, but he's a terrible mod. I have never had a run-in with a number of other people, but they're still terrible mods.
I argue with VT all the fucking time, on the other hand, and he's still a pretty good mod. BigT isn't here supporting me and I've been maintaining that he's the best mod (though less active) since we lost Ash.
i'm not sure how this invalidates my claim... especially since i'm not sure i even made one.
i mean, you're the one who specified a population of "fucking terrible mods"... so all you've really done here is furnish a list of people who you're saying aren't in that category.
or maybe i'm missing something here.
You said this:Originally posted by cat


so... mods that agree with you = awesome and mods that disagree with you = terrible, power-hungry, and unprofessional?
looks like a claim to me, and is completely invalidated by me naming mods I argue with a lot who I don't consider terrible.
not really a claim... just clarifying.
and bolded.
the thing you bolded wasn't the claim.

no kidding.

(it's my rejoinder.)

But ... you claimed that the criterion for me calling someone a shitty mod was disagreeing with me. I contested that point by naming mods I've argued with that i don't consider horrible. In fact, I argue far more with the mods I like because the other ones either won't sustain a conversation for long (because they know they abused their power and are wrong) or are too stupid to be worth it imo.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Deathblade
9 times out of 10, it will be filled with not caring for 2-3 pages, then the subject will change to TF2, or French Toast.
And this by the way, is what pisses people off. They tend to hate that nobody gives a damn about their team. Again, I use Yetis as an example...they hated the forum because the only thing they could do was talk about how great their dots were, and honestly, nobody in CPL gives a damn how good their dots are.
That's a HUGE part of the problem that a lot of people have with CPL.
So then occasionally, one of the new teams decides to put their foot down, and try to change stuff. Generally attacking and trolling CPL by quoting rules, and calling them childish. Then when CPL retaliates, they call in support, or some of the mods that are also pissy that CPL doesn't care.
consider this -- if you truly didn't care about their team/etc, wouldn't it be better just to simply ignore them?
instead of 2-3 pages, how about quite literally 0 replies?
That would be fine, but so what? You're asking 30 people to refrain from sharing their opinion rather than asking one person not to get upset when they share the opinion (which is not an insult to that one person). Not very practical.
it's not really about what you say, it's about how you say it.
there are obviously far more constructive ways to tell people that you're not interested... unless of course you wouldn't mind sparking something.
Again, there's no rule against not-tiptoe-ing. You can't hold an entire league responsible for one person being oversensetive, nor should you.

is that what i'm doing?

and i'm not sure we should so easily assume that a person is being over-sensitive for suddenly getting hit with 2-3 pages of snobbery (even if just in their perception).

i'm to some degree referencing the boltz thing here... it's not a question of right or wrong, but there's a little bit of shared responsibility for the effects, right? i mean, if all the CPL regulars stopped posting for a day, there wouldn't be any of these problems right? and i realize the reverse is also true, but that just proves my point about it being an emergent effect.

so the question becomes: is there something that CPL regulars can do to not shoot themselves in the foot?

Originally posted by Gturtle
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by r87
Also let's clear something up. The 'GG' crowd is like six people.
six active posters, anyway.
there are plenty of people in the CPL that are active on other forums, though. doesn't mean they'll migrate wholesale to a GG subforum, but it wouldn't be completely dead.
heck, you guys might even like it.
I'd absolutely love a "GG" subforum, and that is precisely why the entire concept needs to be re-evaluated.
Right now, a GG thread gets made in CPL, CPL's posters go to it, "flout the rules" and the "GG dots" crowd (as they've been stereotyped) learn that maybe GG threads aren't such a good idea- or they stick to their guns, and develop thicker skin through the experience (sometimes they even turn it around entirely, and troll using GG threads.) However, if you make a GG subforum, I will state under no circumstances will I not troll that forum. I'll troll that sub forum at my most lenient on a bi-weekly basis. It's just something that is going to happen. Now, I'm not a bad troll, in fact I like to think of myself as a competent troll. I once trolled a thread about basic math principles. I'm not going to show up there and say "GTFO" like what happens in CPL, and I feel that ultimately the experience of the forums for the "GG dot" crowd will be worse under those circumstances.

tickets.

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Gturtle

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by r87

Also let's clear something up. The 'GG' crowd is like six people.
six active posters, anyway.
there are plenty of people in the CPL that are active on other forums, though. doesn't mean they'll migrate wholesale to a GG subforum, but it wouldn't be completely dead.
heck, you guys might even like it.
I'd absolutely love a "GG" subforum, and that is precisely why the entire concept needs to be re-evaluated.
Right now, a GG thread gets made in CPL, CPL's posters go to it, "flout the rules" and the "GG dots" crowd (as they've been stereotyped) learn that maybe GG threads aren't such a good idea- or they stick to their guns, and develop thicker skin through the experience (sometimes they even turn it around entirely, and troll using GG threads.) However, if you make a GG subforum, I will state under no circumstances will I not troll that forum. I'll troll that sub forum at my most lenient on a bi-weekly basis. It's just something that is going to happen. Now, I'm not a bad troll, in fact I like to think of myself as a competent troll. I once trolled a thread about basic math principles. I'm not going to show up there and say "GTFO" like what happens in CPL, and I feel that ultimately the experience of the forums for the "GG dot" crowd will be worse under those circumstances.

tickets.

Yeah, I could sell tickets to some of my trollings.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
not my cup of tea but some people do. But liking something tha tisn't against the rules isn't... against the rules.
sure, but don't be surprised at the results.

also... trolling?
saying "loldots" or "MY DOTS COULD BEAT YOUR DOTS" or linking to something that just says "we don't care" are not trolling.

not what i was saying.

my point is that it's very easy to troll someone using only posts that by themselves are completely legal... but trolling itself is completely illegal.

bump that up a hierarchy, and you get the effect where individual users are by themselves not doing anything illegal, but the aggregate effect is that an "entire forum" (deliberately in quotes) successfully trolls a person in a way that they can never satisfactorily respond to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns

Originally posted by Gturtle
I mean really, look at CPL's power rankings. They're probably one of the oldest traditions of CPL, and they're still produced every other day, and they're about dots. Not only are they about dots, but they're defended by CPL's "loldots" crowd almost every season, when somebody mentions that they think the ratings are unfair and their team is "underrated"

which just adds to the confusion, you realize.

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by Deathblade

Originally posted by Deathblade

9 times out of 10, it will be filled with not caring for 2-3 pages, then the subject will change to TF2, or French Toast.
And this by the way, is what pisses people off. They tend to hate that nobody gives a damn about their team. Again, I use Yetis as an example...they hated the forum because the only thing they could do was talk about how great their dots were, and honestly, nobody in CPL gives a damn how good their dots are.
That's a HUGE part of the problem that a lot of people have with CPL.
So then occasionally, one of the new teams decides to put their foot down, and try to change stuff. Generally attacking and trolling CPL by quoting rules, and calling them childish. Then when CPL retaliates, they call in support, or some of the mods that are also pissy that CPL doesn't care.
consider this -- if you truly didn't care about their team/etc, wouldn't it be better just to simply ignore them?
instead of 2-3 pages, how about quite literally 0 replies?
That would be fine, but so what? You're asking 30 people to refrain from sharing their opinion rather than asking one person not to get upset when they share the opinion (which is not an insult to that one person). Not very practical.
it's not really about what you say, it's about how you say it.
there are obviously far more constructive ways to tell people that you're not interested... unless of course you wouldn't mind sparking something.
Again, there's no rule against not-tiptoe-ing. You can't hold an entire league responsible for one person being oversensetive, nor should you.

is that what i'm doing?

and i'm not sure we should so easily assume that a person is being over-sensitive for suddenly getting hit with 2-3 pages of snobbery (even if just in their perception).

i'm to some degree referencing the boltz thing here... it's not a question of right or wrong, but there's a little bit of shared responsibility for the effects, right? i mean, if all the CPL regulars stopped posting for a day, there wouldn't be any of these problems right? and i realize the reverse is also true, but that just proves my point about it being an emergent effect.

so the question becomes: is there something that CPL regulars can do to not shoot themselves in the foot?

Of course there is, but again, you can't expect 30 people to suddenly act differently to accomodate one person most of them don't like when what they're doing in the first place is only against the rules by the strictest definition (a definition that no other forum abides by)