Warrior General Games

Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
Rule 1002: tonylieu must only train confidence and stamina

Glad Admin is not above TROLLING

Originally posted by tonylieu
Glad Admin is not above TROLLING

joke =/= TROLL

Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
joke =/= TROLL

More like...

Wise-ass =/= troll

or

Joke =/= trolling.

I'll give this a little more attention:

1. Vortus 2.0: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3971564&page=18#35497629
2. Adding Rivalries into sorting teams and adding more competition features. The more you can do to encourage in game rivalries and to encourage teams to take thing seriously (by potential game of the week, expanded match up pages, etc.) the better. It will reward those who are competitive over multiple seasons. Bort's thread on rivalries: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3663284
3. I like the post Warlock made: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3971564&page=20#35503549
- Only thing I would change is to make player growth take 8 seasons, instead of 10, and extend the plateau to 3 seasons, where as he suggested taking half as long for the growth period.



r8's idea has potential, too...


Originally posted by r8
Random idea here.

Match up leagues by effective level. Take the entire league schedule and run it through the sim. Simplify things by just taking bare bones basic tactics for every team, because the idea here isn't to determine winner and loser as much as it is just establishing a base-line. If you can, you could probably even just have every game only be 1 quarter long.

Once you do this for the leagues, establish a strength rating for each team based on the outcomes, and re-arrange the leagues again, first by effective level then by the new "strength" rating.

Run the sim again, rearrange one more time, and you have more balanced leagues.

Potential downfalls of this idea: People deliberately waiting until after the re-arranging is done to sign players, so their strength rating is lower. Maybe to offset this you could make pre-season chemistry a 1.5x-2x hit, encouraging people to lock in their rosters before the end of the offseason.

Vortus 2.0 is Exploitable.

Warlock has some good ideas, but we all know Great dots with shitty tactics will loose to really good dots with great tactics. X+Y+Z doesn't work for sorting teams. Too many variables....

r8 may be on to something, but again there is that variables thing. All things equal as they would be in his system.
X+Great game planning =/= X+Okay game planning

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
Warlock has some good ideas, but we all know Great dots with shitty tactics will loose to really good dots with great tactics. X+Y+Z doesn't work for sorting teams. Too many variables....

Well that could be addressed also... by factoring in team record (with a heavy weighting towards play-off performance). It might not be a perfect formula initially, but after a couple seasons, teams would start to fall into their proper placement.

To prevent the loop-hole of coordinators jumping around once leagues are processed, make a sliding scale chemistry penalty for changing coordinators after the off-season phase... the scale can be weighted however is needed to try and prevent people from exploiting the system, but without royally fucking teams that actually need to replace AWOL coordinators.

The league structure is the last of our worries. The problem is that the competition in the league structure isn't a one fix solution. To fix the leagues you have to fix the player age cycle and the VA/AEQ bonuses. Fix those problems first, then see if the league structure still works, if not, then change the league structure. Start at the start. Fix the VA/SA/AEQ problems of creating such disparity between two "should-be" competitive teams. Extend the plateau of player cycle. And in my opinion, get rid of training and ALGs, and the competition will sort itself out without having to roll out a new league structure that won't work in the end anyway.

Again, start with the players, then move up the chain.

Ladder systems are a pretty tried and true method of getting solid competition, although it's not flawless, it does grants great flexibility. Some will exploit the system, but that will happen in any system... no system is flawless, especially when you give the players any measure of control (as they change the variables and thus the equation).

I like VAs/AEQ/SAs/etc... the game would be way too simplistic without those aspects... the problem isn't so much the player development system, the problem is more the matching of advanced players vs novice players. With a ladder system, players of relatively equal skill will face each other far more often than the LOLleaguestructure we currently have. Will some exploiters slip thru the cracks? Yeah, but they'll be pretty uncommon and much easier for the GLB team to identify and deal with.

Originally posted by Xar
The league structure is the last of our worries. The problem is that the competition in the league structure isn't a one fix solution. To fix the leagues you have to fix the player age cycle and the VA/AEQ bonuses. Fix those problems first, then see if the league structure still works, if not, then change the league structure. Start at the start. Fix the VA/SA/AEQ problems of creating such disparity between two "should-be" competitive teams. Extend the plateau of player cycle. And in my opinion, get rid of training and ALGs, and the competition will sort itself out without having to roll out a new league structure that won't work in the end anyway.

Again, start with the players, then move up the chain.

How does this bring competition into leagues. My players have the correct % peices and builds, why do I not have competitive games?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=413

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
Vortus 2.0 is Exploitable.

Warlock has some good ideas, but we all know Great dots with shitty tactics will loose to really good dots with great tactics. X+Y+Z doesn't work for sorting teams. Too many variables....

r8 may be on to something, but again there is that variables thing. All things equal as they would be in his system.
X+Great game planning =/= X+Okay game planning

If OC's and DC's were ranked, that could also increase their "strength" of the team. Just an idear.


By the way, the idea of getting rid of ALGs was brought up on the test server. Immediately shot down by Catch22 as a "not going to happen, don't even bother" type thing.

Originally posted by Staz
If OC's and DC's were ranked, that could also increase their "strength" of the team. Just an idear.


By the way, the idea of getting rid of ALGs was brought up on the test server. Immediately shot down by Catch22 as a "not going to happen, don't even bother" type thing.

I was going to suggest a ranking formula for coordinators, but it would be complicated to do and be exploitable (like anything else).

As for ALGs, they're fine in concept, just not when combined with such a slow development process IMHO.

I'll say it again, we dont need to make this so damn complicated that you need a PhD to understand it. We've already added enough complexity to this game, let's work on making it simple and fun again... please.

The one move that i would make if i were the game designer, whether it's popular or not, is i would speed up the build process. Dont start us off at level 40, or 50, or 30. Just speed up the build process. Would it hurt the first round of players? Sure, but for the long term health of the game, i think it's only going to help. Since you guys (admins) are reading this thread, i figure ill try to lay out why i think this would only help the game in the long term:

First off, here's how i would work it-
First season, player levels to around 13-14
Second season, player levels to around 23-25
Third season, player levels to 35-38
Fourth season, player levels to 48-50
Fifth season, player levels to 57-59
Stop earning XP, Start earning VPs (probably at a faster rate than we currently earn them, to balance things out, starting them so late)
Sixth season to Eleventh season, 3 boosts per season only (Bort still makes his money, players are at a high enough level to play pro ball for 6+ seasons).
Decline starts

Downfalls
Id like to hear your thoughts, but here's the only ones i can think of:
*Hurts new players compared to players created under old system
*Boredom past season 5 (but not really, seeing as how much more fun training seems like it'll be in the future. Besides, does anyone really have fun levelling twice a season anyway?)

Benefits
*Brings back longevity and team loyalty since players would be able to play at the pro/WL level for more than a few seasons
*Reduces the gap between elite dots and merely above average dots since ALGs arent nearly as important as they are now
*Would hopefully reduce team turnover at higher levels, thus reducing gut/rebuild jobs
*Allows the promotion/relegation system to run more smoothly, since in theory, fewer teams would be gutting and restarting every season. Having dots around for 5-7 seasons in top levels almost replicates the early days of GLB
*With all this, youd expect some rivalries to be recaptured because right now, it's frustrating to join a pro/WL team with a player, only to have to retire 2 seasons into his time there.

*Eliminates the need for overly complicated league structuring Read on - Right now, player level gaps are so huge, it's lead to the addition of 8 million capped leagues. This is partly responsible for the thinning out of leagues IMO. With this system, you really only need 3-4 caps. Maybe something like a 16 cap, 24 cap, 32 cap and 40 cap. See below for an example of how this might work -

You decide to start a new team with some friends. You all build your dots on day 41. Season 1 of your franchise, youre in a 16 cap league. Youll probably suck, so you end up staying in the league. You all end season 1 at around level 14 or so after boosts.

Season 2, youre competitive in your 16 cap league, make the playoffs and get promoted to a 24 cap. You finish season 2 at level 23-25. Fits right into your new league. Winners of the league would bump up 2 caps to 32 (example only).

Ok, so your team's 3rd season, you do well again in a fairly evenly matched league. You make the playoffs and get pushed up to the next cap, a 32 cap. You end season 3 all at around level 35-38. Sure youre all over the cap, but so are most other teams in the league. This time, you guys go balls out and make it to the title game, giving you a 2 cap progression.

You all finish at around level 48-50 after your 4th season, and get pushed up 2 caps, to AA ball. Looks fine so far. From here on out, normal progression/relegation takes over. Others have mentioned it before, but then you go to a pull system. WL rules all, so work your way down from there each season. Move just enough teams up to fill vacating spots, nothing more, nothing less.

By level 50, you should be capable of competing at AAA or better, and by the end of your 5th season, at nearly level 60, if youre good you should be able to compete at the pro level or better. A good team starting from scratch could reach the pros by their 6th season and have 5 more good seasons up there together if they want.

So all in all, Bort still makes his money from boosters. VAs dont really come into play until a player is actually a real veteran, so we can stop crying about VAs making too big a difference. Competition is improved greatly because of the gap reduction, not only in player levels, but in player builds due to reducing the effects of ALGs. Team loyalty and team spirit is rekindled since youre not having to turn over a roster every few seasons.

I hope some of you take the time to read this tl;dr post because i really think it's a great idea. Some of these have been brought up before, but please post your thoughts, good or bad on this. Id love to hear admin responses too, because i think this could go a long way into bringing back the fun to this game. The most important things we have to do is bring back that team spirt feeling (no homo) and competition imo. This accomplishes both, albeit at the expense of the first gen of players not being at quite the same effective level as players created in the "old" system

I still think the best solution is the one suggested by a few at the beginning of this thread which was to return to the old format but not make it a true pyramid... this is would be an example of just one way it could work...

...........................................................................................................WL..................................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
..........................................................................................*Promote/Demote 16*................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................Pro (x8).............................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
.......................................................................................................*P/D 4*..............................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
..........................................................................................................AAA..................................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
.......................................................................................................*P/D 4*..............................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................AA...................................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
...............................................................*P/D 2*...................................................................*P/D 2*......................................................................
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................A1...........................................................................A2..........................................................................

The "minor league" system that feeds into the A leagues would be regionally specific (not a cloud of teams that could go anywhere) and structured similarly to the current minor leagues in a more condensed fashion (fewer leagues at each league level). Also, like others have said the cap requirements are too harsh right now and should be loosened somewhat.

It would allow for us to keep all 8 Pro leagues so people can keep their league affiliations (the diagram just shows one Pro League progression). It also allows for rivalries, especially in the higher levels, as everything from minors to Pro is league specific. Basically it contracts the league yet allows for more promotion/demotion to give teams more opportunity to advance higher. You could contract and expand the A through BBB leagues. We just have to accept that there is no perfect solution for maxing competition in the lower leagues.

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
How does this bring competition into leagues. My players have the correct % peices and builds, why do I not have competitive games?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=413

Because the other teams probably don't. If you don't adhere to the exact AEQ pieces you're stuffed. Also, most people have neglected confidence and stamina in builds and the new changes have deeply effected death spirals that are now more prevalent, so more blowout games.

If VAs/AEQ/SAs were all fixed that would go a long way towards helping evening out the playing field. IMO, they should just get rid of all +% AEQ peices and make all SAs/VAs +x attribute bonuses.

League structure is a huge issue. Originally posted by Xar
The league structure is the last of our worries. The problem is that the competition in the league structure isn't a one fix solution. To fix the leagues you have to fix the player age cycle and the VA/AEQ bonuses. Fix those problems first, then see if the league structure still works, if not, then change the league structure. Start at the start. Fix the VA/SA/AEQ problems of creating such disparity between two "should-be" competitive teams. Extend the plateau of player cycle. And in my opinion, get rid of training and ALGs, and the competition will sort itself out without having to roll out a new league structure that won't work in the end anyway.

Again, start with the players, then move up the chain.

I have to disagree. League structure is a huge issue. Some of these would not be problems if the leagues were organized better. The new gear system looks like it will have fixed the EQ issue. I like the SA/VA system. Could it be better, probably, but its not much of an issue to me. How would you define two "should be" competitive teams? As it stands now, there are ways of arranging it that are not happening. As long as the teams are close on SP value, age, and effective level, it will come down to builds and tactics. As teams ranked using those known values will have the roughly same access to SP, VA's and SA's,