Warrior General Games

Already been revised to keeping the DPC now and just limiting player movement....i'll give this until Sunday before they scrap the whole idea

To the guy who is wondering why a OPC is coming up in a thread about nerfing the DPC, it's because an OPC would removed the need to nerf the DPC. And I said that with civility so please show more when you post your reply.

Because this is page 20, I'll repeat what I've said in earlier pages:

1. The DPC is not broken. It works exactly the way DCs want.
2. You have literally 1000s of DCs trying everything they can to build the best plays using an awesome tool.
3. The number of peoples trying to counter the creativity of 1000s of DCs will always fail, including whatever you think can you do now to solve it. If this is your solution you will eventually have to remove the DPC.
4. The best solution is to give the same flexibility to the offense, in other words an OPC, because any creativity will be met with the creativity of literally 1000s of OCs.


Note the dates. I suggested this a year and a half ago when the DPC came out for exactly these reasons.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/neoliminal/3277449739/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neoliminal/3277449801/

Originally posted by Bort
TBH we could add some more formations like 4-4 by adding more limitations to the d line, since it would be far easier to test against.

The main things that I find dumb are the completely unrealistic D line setups some people make with a DE way outside on one side and the DT shifted way the other way, etc. Does not resemble a real formation in any way.

So, No Bear fronts or 3-4's.... this is what the rally is against when it comes to limiting the DPC.... because fat ass lineman want to put all strength and blocking on, instead of actually getting movement skills.... I dont know how more simple you could make it.... they need to figure out what those gold and blue stars mean... dont ya think?

Originally posted by jktooley
FIN FUCKING A LY.... Been suggesting limiting dline movement with the DPC for over a year now...


Here's the deal for everybody freaking out about it... Exploit blitzes suck.... Constantly trying to rework blocking and trying to nerf the DLine/Blitz backers has caused bort to waste a shit-ton of time that could be spent fixing other areas of the game...

Simple solution? Limit people from "gaming" the system with exploitable blitzing...

Oh, and who will benefit without knowing it yet? DE's and DT's... Once Bort see's the incredibly low sack totals as a result of less nano-blitzing, they'll get a buff again.

Im going to take your approach here then.... build better DE's and DT's.... ours do just fine. And they aren't even close to the tops in the league. There is no such thing as exploit blitzes, either you have OL that can move and pick up blitzes, or you dont... this all boils down to the dried up marketplace for top notch OL. People are having to settle for less then great OL, when building their rosters.... thats not my problem, but you are making it my problem, because you are too cheap too build great OL, you aren't part of the mega colluders affiliations, cant network, or can't gameplan.

Now, how exactly is that my problem, that I have to be drug down into the mud, with you?

Originally posted by LithoMan
There is no such thing as exploit blitzes, either you have OL that can move and pick up blitzes, or you dont... this all boils down to the dried up marketplace for top notch OL. People are having to settle for less then great OL, when building their rosters.... thats not my problem, but you are making it my problem, because you are too cheap too build great OL, you aren't part of the mega colluders affiliations, cant network, or can't gameplan.



LMAO, do you even look at replays kid?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1420117&pbp_id=10577300

Ya, working as intended?......nope exploit blitz, grab a hint.

Originally posted by LithoMan
There is no such thing as exploit blitzes, either you have OL that can move and pick up blitzes, or you dont..


LMAO... You either have an OL that picks up blitzes or not? Are you just messing with me?

.

Originally posted by LithoMan
Im going to take your approach here then.... build better DE's and DT's.... ours do just fine.

You have level 70+ players in AAA. Actually your DT builds appear to be pretty bad. Of course they do fine against CPUs and players 10+ levels lower than them.

Get into the Pros and you will see that DT sacks become virtually non existent.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1167263 - 8 sacks looks OK until you consider 6 came against a team that went CPU
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1304875 - All 3 sacks vs the same CPU team

It's gotten to a point at the WL level where almost all sacks involve a player with 130+ speed (usually 140+) getting to the QB unblocked

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
You have level 70+ players in AAA. Actually your DT builds appear to be pretty bad. Of course they do fine against CPUs and players 10+ levels lower than them.

Get into the Pros and you will see that DT sacks become virtually non existent.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1167263 - 8 sacks looks OK until you consider 6 came against a team that went CPU
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1304875 - All 3 sacks vs the same CPU team

It's gotten to a point at the WL level where almost all sacks involve a player with 130+ speed (usually 140+) getting to the QB unblocked


Not in Casual Pro!

Originally posted by The Avenger
Not in Casual Pro!


True. But there are only a handful of Casual Pro teams with regular Pro quality rosters, and DCs can't chose to send more pass rushers than there are blockers.

If the majority of Casual Pro teams had Pro quality OL and QBs, casual pro sacks would become virtually non existent.

Over the season there have been many fixes to o-line logic, many of them to combat exploit blitzes. Unfortunately many of the fixes led to new exploits.

I wonder if it would be possible to randomize these fixes(o-line logic) so that the blockers do not always act in the same way.

This would make the exact placement of dots to get that instant sack somewhat obsolete but at times those blitzes would still be effective.

So instead of always having inside to outside blocking logic sometimes the o-line will pick up the blitz form the outside to the inside, maybe sometimes the rg pulls to pick up a blitz and so on....

All of the blocking scenarios can leave holes for blitzers but if you change up the logic randomly those holes will not always be in the same place and could eliminate some of the exploit blitzing problems.

Originally posted by LithoMan
Im going to take your approach here then.... build better DE's and DT's.... ours do just fine. And they aren't even close to the tops in the league. There is no such thing as exploit blitzes, either you have OL that can move and pick up blitzes, or you dont... this all boils down to the dried up marketplace for top notch OL. People are having to settle for less then great OL, when building their rosters.... thats not my problem, but you are making it my problem, because you are too cheap too build great OL, you aren't part of the mega colluders affiliations, cant network, or can't gameplan.

Now, how exactly is that my problem, that I have to be drug down into the mud, with you?

+1,000,000

Actually, it really depends on how they limit the movement. I admit that I haven't read all 21 pages of this, but while I originally hated the idea, the more I think about it, the more it makes at least some sense.

If you set distances from the line that your Linebackers, and secondary has to be back, that should significantly slow up some of the overload blitzes. You still have more people, but some of them simply have to go further, and the O-Line gets a chance to get set in the SIM logic.

Right now, overloading the line can break a defender through instantly, and there is very little the offense can do to react. I would hope though that you wouldn't limit the outside placement of your outside linebackers, other wise like many have said, the screen, or toss will be the new play of the day.

Not sure anyone can really honestly complain about this as for many seasons people have been trying to get Bort to fix the blocking, and line interaction. This doesn't do that, BUT it does limit the test/debug set to something that might be manageable.

I also think adding an OPC without fixing the underlying concepts of the line interaction is exactly the wrong thing to do. It is the sexy/fun new toy to code, instead of the drudgery of testing and integrating existing code, but it would be like slapping a coat of white paint on an outhouse and claiming you made a replica of the White House (political jokes avoided).

I dont understand how they are saying the defense has to be toned down ?

You can see from any league , from PEE WEE all the way to World League , in 3 games all the HBs have over 1000 rushing yards . Yet they are complaining that the Offensive line needs help? They have to remove or limit the DPC ?

They O-Line is always better then the D-Line if anything if you are going to limit the DPC then help out and balance out both lines. Help us slow down the running game , make more realistic , I know its a fantasy game but , damn give the defense some help.

I know that just like the inflated rushing stats , there is also inflated sacks , well just balance out the game , make it more realistic , so that Defensive coordinators can slow down the run and you can also fix the O-line so that they dont allow 100 sacks to one player at the end of the season.

If the running abuse gets fixed , then there will be more passing , and if you fix the O-line to prevent so many sacks , then its a more balanced play overall .

Originally posted by PinTBC
I also think adding an OPC without fixing the underlying concepts of the line interaction is exactly the wrong thing to do. It is the sexy/fun new toy to code, instead of the drudgery of testing and integrating existing code, but it would be like slapping a coat of white paint on an outhouse and claiming you made a replica of the White House (political jokes avoided).

The underlying code needs tweaking, which I agree. The blocking code shouldn't be that hard, O-Linemen pick their blocking assignments (for god's sake, the simulation already knows who is blitzing), and they attempt to execute the block.

There's no way to convince people that Blocking and Agility is a skill that O-Linemen need. Everyone here seems to think they can just pump Strength and that's enough, but an Offensive Tackle needs Agility and Blocking or the Speed DE is going to eat their lunch.

But again, for any given 6 man blitz there are four 1-on-1 receivers. Throw the freaking ball for the easy yards.