Warrior General Games

Originally posted by odt
Originally posted by Arya Stark
I was thinking about an incremental bonus payout for cashing in your normal gear available for every player. Something like this:
Normal gear, no upgrades: 70% cash, 0 Bonus points
Normal gear, 1 upgrade (lvl 8): 70% cash, 1 Bonus points
Normal gear, 2 upgrades (lvl 16): 70% cash, 3 Bonus points (1 for lvl 8, 2 for lvl 16)
Normal gear, 3 upgrades (lvl 24): 70% cash, 6 Bonus points (1 for lvl 8, 2 for lvl 16, 3 for lvl 24)
Normal gear, 4 upgrades (lvl 32): 70% cash, 10 Bonus points (1 for lvl 8, 2 for lvl 16, 3 for lvl 24, 4 for lvl 32)


so I get 40 bonus points if I sell 4 and 70% of my cash back? I'll just buy 10 pieces of equipment and then sell it back for bonus points and I have enough bonus points to upgrade my advanced equipment 7 times at level 25, won't work.

I was looking for a workable solution not a quick buck. But, yes, I have just seen the loops involved. As long as there were no barrier involved regarding the number of items you could buy and sell in a given period of time, a full normal level 24 stripdown and advanced build-up would cost you only $19,500 + the cost of the new gear up front. Even if the total cost through the loss of the lvl 24 buy and spend makes it much more expensive, you don't care, that money is spent and don't have to front it.

It would involve the following:

*Sell your 4x lvl 24 gear
*Get 70% cash (the current system) and 8 Bonus tokens for each piece.
*You now have 0 equipment, 70% of your original cash spend ($262000 x 75% = $196500, a loss of -$65500) and 36 tokens.
*Buy 1 new pieces and boost it once (level 8) ($3000)
*Sell it for 70% cash and 1 bonus point. ($2250, a loss of €750)
*Repeat until you have another 96 bonus tokens (basically 72 pieces of equipment) Cost $216000, Return 162000 ((3000)/75%)*72. €-54,000)
*Upgrade each adv equipment to lvl 24 using 96 tokens (8 tokens x3 upgrades x4 adv equip) Cost $262000

You could even get around the stockpile problem by upgrading the new stuff as you go, requiring a little more liquidity but essentially the same spend.

Ok, this isn't workable (esp. as with enough cash you could run the loop for match-boost bonus tokens every game in addition to the equip as well for the low-low cost of €12,000). It would require a block on buying & selling equipment. Hum, not good.

Ok, same idea but only getting the bonus points from cashing in level 32 equipment?

Originally posted by SCACE
I still think the idea of crafting the advanced item into the regular item at a 50% cost of the regular item, but that item now being a "lvl 1" advanced item that can be upgraded at lvl 8, 16, 24, etc. with bonus tokens + cash is the way to go here.

Example:

LVL 24 HB with +4 speed gloves

Finds a +2 speed, +1 Head Fake superior gloves

For 4 bonus tokens (2 bonus tokens per +1 attribute you can keep), he can craft his newly purchased advanced item into his regular item and have a new superior item:

+4 speed, +1 Head Fake superior crafted gloves

Now he needs 8 bonus tokens + $$$ to upgrade it +1 attribute....another 8 bonus tokens + $$$ and he can add another +1 attribute (for simplicity, speed) and he gets a +1 Head Fake as well, so the item is now....

+6 speed, +2 Head Fake

Considering the cost of upgrading, it really only makes sense to craft 1 item, maybe two if you plan on intense training the whole way -- you could then upgrade both once per season. And maybe you find an item good enough to craft that you don't worry about the upgrading, who knows.

The kickers are this:

1. Once an item is crafted, nothing else can be crafted to it.
2. If you want to sell it, you have to sell the entire piece just like other equipment -- note, you should get at least 50% of the bonus tokens spent on this, just like with cash.
3. Odd number regular items would round up (i.e. a level 32 player with a +5 piece of equipment would be able to keep +3 at a cost of 6 bonus tokens to craft it)

I'm probably missing some things, but I really think this is the type of thing that should be implemented for the higher level users to craft advanced items into the regular items they have already paid for, rather than having to sell the regular items for 50% cash or keeping them around but not using them in the hopes a crafting system will appear.

I endorse this plan.

I like certain things about the SCACE Plan.

Basically, as I understand it, it's an upgradable combination plan.

You still have to roll for good advanced equipment, but once you find it, and can pay for it, you can combine it with your current regular equipment (at a price.)

The combination between the regular and advanced equipment immediately adds the attributes in the regular equipment, and the SAs or % increases of the Adv. Equipment, but to get the Attribute increases of the advanced equipment (if it has any) you have to upgrade it.

Good
1. Keeping the bonus token cost low for the initial combination lets people get into a useful piece of Adv. Equipment quickly.

2. Keeping the cost of upgrading the equipment at 8 tokens addresses the complication of players who have already purchased and upgraded a piece of AE by the time the system is implemented.
Once they combine the pieces in the new system, their upgrades can carry over and their tokens won't be wasted.

3. Using a combination system also allows veteran players the same advantages as lower lvls.

4. On a purely aesthetic level, placing the attributes in an already existing piece of equipment prevents you from having to equip a pink shirt to your NT. The combined piece will carry the color of the regular equipment.

Bad
But then how/when can you upgrade the % or SA? Because you're no longer basing the upgrades on the level of the player, you're upgrading it only to the limit of the original AE's attributes.

For example:

Player has Regular Equipment of +4 Speed.
Player rolls Adv. Equipment of +3 Speed and +1 Juke.

Combined equipment carries over Juke. So crafted equipment starts with +4 Speed +1 Juke.

Because the original Adv. Equipment has +3 Speed, you can upgrade it 3 times to regain those points.
After three upgrades then, the equipment would be +7 Speed and +4 Juke?

And then, if the original Advanced Equipment was only +1 Speed and +1 Juke, you can only upgrade it one time. So the Juke could only get up to +2.
If that's what we're talking about, I think that puts a bit too much emphasis on the AE roll.

ROFL

Nobody wants to just keep "shopping" until they find a piece of AE worth buying? Or is it that people jumped into buying AE that wasn't good enough, too quickly?

The AE store is a crapshoot, with the emphasis on crap. Some players have gotten usable gear already, some people have had bad luck. And yes, it's harder for a veteran player to find AE that isn't within an upgrade or two of their basic gear.

We're suggesting all these different ways of making AE easier to use for veteran players. The real question isn't how we go about doing that, it's whether Bort *wants* to make it easier. Somehow, I don't think so, because he's done everything he can to make it harder to have One Best Way To Build, and this is just another part of that.

I've posted my share in these threads, but this is it. I have a strong feeling that we're wasting our time with this.

Originally posted by TrueBlueInMD
ROFL

Nobody wants to just keep "shopping" until they find a piece of AE worth buying? Or is it that people jumped into buying AE that wasn't good enough, too quickly?

The AE store is a crapshoot, with the emphasis on crap. Some players have gotten usable gear already, some people have had bad luck. And yes, it's harder for a veteran player to find AE that isn't within an upgrade or two of their basic gear.

We're suggesting all these different ways of making AE easier to use for veteran players. The real question isn't how we go about doing that, it's whether Bort *wants* to make it easier. Somehow, I don't think so, because he's done everything he can to make it harder to have One Best Way To Build, and this is just another part of that.

I've posted my share in these threads, but this is it. I have a strong feeling that we're wasting our time with this.

As far as Bort not wanting to improve the current system: I'd like to direct your attention to the second post of this thread.

I'm all for making players have to work for a superior piece of equipment. But as has been said before, there are ways of improving the current system without making it easy/meaningless/common.


I don't understand your point about Bort not wanting a "One best way to build" scenario. Drawing out the upgrading process over two seasons doesn't do anything to prevent monotonous builds.

To summarize, we're basically looking at three different types of new systems:

1) Combination/Craft System
Once Adv. Equipment is purchased, the player can combine it with his current equipment piece (for a price.)

Good: Allows veteran players to enjoy Adv. Equipment in the same time frame as new players, and lets all players get into Adv. Equipment quickly. Yet it doesn't make it easy/meaningless. Since you still have to roll for the right equipment.

Bad: How then do you handle upgrades?

2) Cash In System
Player can "cash in" his regular equipment for Bonus Tokens which can then be used to upgrade Adv. Equipment.

Good: Expedites time frame for veteran players to upgrade Adv. Equipment to usable level.

Bad: How many Bonus Tokens do you give for cashed in equipment?

3) New Slot System
Advanced Equipment no longer replaces existing equipment, but fills new slots such as jewelry, pads, etc.

Good: It's uncomplicated. It also allows for players to equip Adv. Equipment as soon as they get it.

Bad: How do you handle upgrades? Does a whole new slot(s) with +4 of an attribute make it too powerful? More importantly, what do you do with all the Adv. Equipment that players have already bought? Let them sell it back for Bonus Tokens? What about all the Shopping Tokens they spent to get that great piece of equipment? What about the cash they spent to purchase it?

Originally posted by Kwill-bot
To summarize, we're basically looking at three different types of new systems:

1) Combination/Craft System
Once Adv. Equipment is purchased, the player can combine it with his current equipment piece (for a price.)

Good: Allows veteran players to enjoy Adv. Equipment in the same time frame as new players, and lets all players get into Adv. Equipment quickly. Yet it doesn't make it easy/meaningless. Since you still have to roll for the right equipment.

Bad: How then do you handle upgrades?

2) Cash In System
Player can "cash in" his regular equipment for Bonus Tokens which can then be used to upgrade Adv. Equipment.

Good: Expedites time frame for veteran players to upgrade Adv. Equipment to usable level.

Bad: How many Bonus Tokens do you give for cashed in equipment?

3) New Slot System
Advanced Equipment no longer replaces existing equipment, but fills new slots such as jewelry, pads, etc.

Good: It's uncomplicated. It also allows for players to equip Adv. Equipment as soon as they get it.

Bad: How do you handle upgrades? Does a whole new slot(s) with +4 of an attribute make it too powerful? More importantly, what do you do with all the Adv. Equipment that players have already bought? Let them sell it back for Bonus Tokens? What about all the Shopping Tokens they spent to get that great piece of equipment? What about the cash they spent to purchase it?

Overall, I think I like the second option, with a slight adjustment. Instead of trading it in for bonus tokens, which lets rich teams just buy lots of equipment to pick up more bonus tokens, trade it in for a credit that can only be used for upgrades to equipment in that slot, and only to a max. of the level of equipment traded in.
I'd suggest maybe an effective credit of 4 bonus tokens per level of the equipment, so level 8 gear would be 4 tokens worth of equipment credit which can't be used to get higher than effectively level 8 equipment. level 16 would be 8 tokens, can't be used to get equipment to more than the 2nd upgrade, etc.

lvl 32 upgrades cost toooooooooooo much!! $200,000 for +1 That is more than my salary.

Originally posted by RUGGERLAD
lvl 32 upgrades cost toooooooooooo much!! $200,000 for +1 That is more than my salary. I don't want the advanced equipment.

Wat?

Originally posted by Kwill-bot
Originally posted by RUGGERLAD

lvl 32 upgrades cost toooooooooooo much!! $200,000 for +1 That is more than my salary. I don't want the advanced equipment.

Wat?

thats what i was thinkin as well. lvl equipment has nothin to do wit the advance new equipment.

My only thought on this ... Befor my thought BTW that is a GREAT IDEA !!!

Ok thought is this ...

3/ Add an EQ marketplace for selling off old eq when upgrading

Take and put a lvl cap on an item when it has been upgraded. The reason for this is that a lvl 1 could buy a lvl 40 equipment item if you did not do this .

That is all.

Allow us to switch at least half of the points from our normal equip to our adv equip.

Bort,

Any update as to where you are with this? Is something gonna happen this season? Are you leaning 1 direction?

TIA,
Hulk

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but how about the equipment offered to players be more specific to the players. Its really stupid for a WR to get equipment offered to him that would increase his chance to avoid a FAKE unless there are other "fakes" than the Pump Fake by the QB. Or for him to get +1 SA to DUMP PASS.

Originally posted by Kwill-bot
Bad
But then how/when can you upgrade the % or SA? Because you're no longer basing the upgrades on the level of the player, you're upgrading it only to the limit of the original AE's attributes.

For example:

Player has Regular Equipment of +4 Speed.
Player rolls Adv. Equipment of +3 Speed and +1 Juke.

Combined equipment carries over Juke. So crafted equipment starts with +4 Speed +1 Juke.

Because the original Adv. Equipment has +3 Speed, you can upgrade it 3 times to regain those points.
After three upgrades then, the equipment would be +7 Speed and +4 Juke?

And then, if the original Advanced Equipment was only +1 Speed and +1 Juke, you can only upgrade it one time. So the Juke could only get up to +2.
If that's what we're talking about, I think that puts a bit too much emphasis on the AE roll.






Once you craft a piece of equipment, it upgrades on the Advanced Equipment structure. From the example you gave above, once crafted the piece starts at +4 speed, +1 juke.

With 8 bonus tokens + $$$, it can be upgraded to +5 speed, +1 juke. Another 8 bonus tokens, and it becomes +6 speed, +2 juke. Remember that the SA only upgrades every 16 levels, not every 8.

By using this type of system, you still limit a player to 1-2 pieces of advanced equipment because it costs the BT's to upgrade it -- but at the late stage of a player's career, they may be able to find pieces that are "sweet" enough to purchase and craft for 1-2 seasons without upgrading -- it just adds more strategy to it, and shouldn't make anything overpowered.