Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Cybertron
Quickness is this most important skill on most players...

Depends on what you ask them to do.

Can be. Doesn't have to be.

The sim rewards Footwork on Gimli more than it would reward Quickness.

That's a good thing.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Hmm, to be clear, the comp rate in Vet is not "high", not at all compared to the NFL. The rushing ypc is very high, but again wouldn't want that messed with because it would be boring.

So far, int rates haven't dropped for Man or Zone in the games I've seen. Maybe the LB snagging balls out of the air have lessened, but DBs with good awareness are even more dangerous now. Nevermind that the int rate in GLB far exceeds the NFL. it came about after the passing nerf in S26, but Pass heavy teams adjusted. Passing and Pass coverage looks more fluid now, but we still need more data


Bo, this is a game, not the NFL. There has to be balance. Everyone else admits that nonstar QBs have great completion rates in Vet despite Int totals (even C-Dog).


We can logically conclude this nerf zones, there is no data needed to be collected. Why are we afraid of compensating Zone? All of Zone's SAs are designed for short/mid range pass defense, there is nothing to counter Deep throws which guys like you will exploit. It's not like Man's SA's have over the top requirements to work.

Originally posted by Xars
I'm taking you to a better place.

New Zone.



Where you've already shown you will exploit deep throws against it.

Originally posted by ellix
Just some quick maffs, but the chance of you not completing a pass with a 40% completion rate, assuming you pass on all three downs is 21.6%.

So a 78.4% chance that you will complete a pass during the drive. At a 7.9 YPA that means you're maintaining 15 yards a catch.

Obviously there are things like INTs, Fumbles, Sacks, etc. That factor into the mix. But I'd feel perfectly fine running an offense putting up those numbers in a vacuum.

The math isn't bad but it's not that practical. Those are pretty close to LogZilla's Passing stats of last season. Our Offensive efficiency, which is the best stat to look at, wasn't elite. You can't run LogZilla v1 (ala Belgarath & Beglarion) anymore and be successful.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Bo, this is a game, not the NFL. There has to be balance. Everyone else admits that nonstar QBs have great completion rates in Vet despite Int totals (even C-Dog).

We can logically conclude this nerf zones, there is no data needed to be collected. Why are we afraid of compensating Zone? All of Zone's SAs are designed for short/mid range pass defense, there is nothing to counter Deep throws which guys like you will exploit.



Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Where you've already shown you will exploit deep throws against it.

Myrik,

Not everyone has a high Pass Power QB ready to go at Vet. My current QB has a 9. And not every WR has high Rec Awareness to make up for the code change. Watch: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/814353

Now in time, the Offense's will change. But so will the D. You're wedded to the INPUT of 10% INTs rather than the EFFECTIVENESS of Zone as a scheme. I understand what you built your team for but you can't run 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger against 3WR TRIPS and have it be effective. This may not be real football but it is a football game.

I believe Bort has already shown he's open to changing how SA's activate.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
You all either weren't here for or forgot about Rob's broken unstoppable Pass Game.

Oh, I remember that team. That was the only team that would consistently score over 21 points against my Vet zone defense....and he would put up 40+ against me.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Bo, this is a game, not the NFL. There has to be balance. Everyone else admits that nonstar QBs have great completion rates in Vet despite Int totals (even C-Dog).


We can logically conclude this nerf zones, there is no data needed to be collected. Why are we afraid of compensating Zone? All of Zone's SAs are designed for short/mid range pass defense, there is nothing to counter Deep throws which guys like you will exploit. It's not like Man's SA's have over the top requirements to work.



non S* QBs are 2nd tier in Vet, no one outside a few even build around S* QBs now. Fixing the passing arc to match how a QB should throw was a good thing, games look way more fluid now. And at the same time defenses are still getting Ints. The difference now is that QBs that invest in Pass Power are rewarded instead of penalized. DBs with good awareness and skills like Cov Tech are even better. Safeties with good awareness and reaction time are even better. Yes, LBs can't reach up and snag balls out of the air anymore, but that was always a broken mechanic

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Xars is very knowledagble, but he also said Zone was dead last season, and was proven a bit wrong there.


Oddly, it was more susceptible to the running game than passing. The INT rate is what it is because the QB doesn't make the sideline throw to WR1. Fixing the throw (the angle is fixed) is just one part because we don't know if QB progression will "see" the Tick 29 opportunity.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar

Zone's SAs are all currently built for mid/short pass defense situations only. I would think with this big of a buff to the pass game it wouldn't be much to ask for. Please remove the over the top requirements.

100% agree. I started playing zone for 2 reasons. 1 - to stop the outside runs. 2 - to destroy any short or mid-range passes over the middle, because the long ball was pretty much non-existent...unless you were Rob.

Please remove over the top requirements to balance out this huge deep passing buff.

Originally posted by Xars
Myrik,

Not everyone has a high Pass Power QB ready to go at Vet. Watch: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/814353

Now in time, the Offense's will change. But so will the D. You're wedded to the INPUT of 10% INTs rather than the EFFECTIVENESS of Zone as a scheme.



I'm looking at down the road. Eventually, maybe by the time my current KYM reaches Vet, teams will have adjusted to this change. People want to win and will exploit any weakness they find, its our nature.

You're stuck on "10% Int rates", it was your main point for asking the pass change. I've repeatedly reintegrated for game balance and pointed out that Zone's SAs are all geared for mid/short or underneath pass coverage only. If they are going to buff long balls, then it is fair to ask for Zone to have its SA's reflect this change when people will exploit the weakness. It will allow zone players to have more build diversity because right now you have to build to favor your SAs. My whole point is to make sure Zone is effective for game balance. Zone get's Ints as part of its game balance, its SAs were previous geared toward this by design. How hard is this to understand... this is not the NFL, it's a game.

Let's be honest here, you do not care about Zone being effective...You're already licking your chops at your next build with LZ... its not like you didn't show your hand with those templates, man.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

The Rec Awareness nerf, and more loftyness on deep passes is allowing Safeties to have more impact I think. Kam had 3 ints in the BSB/Southside game, but more importantly was able to get in position better since the TE didn't have early rec awareness. I didn't understand why the Devs changed that, but watching scrims, I must say it's great for pass defenders with good awareness & reaction time. I do think people will have to invest more into Cov Tech now or get burned in Man D.


Interesting...I'll have to keep an eye on it. All these changes could potentially have positive effects on zone defenses in some areas.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar

Let's be honest here, you do not care about Zone being effective...You're already licking your chops at your next build with LZ... its not like you didn't show your hand with those templates, man.

Dude,

Stop thinking I care as much about winning as you do. I don't.

I went to Vet with an 11 Accuracy QB by choice.

So again, let me state for the record that Zone should = Man in terms of effectiveness. But you have to stop running ridiculous formation matchups and then defending it.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar

You're stuck on "10% Int rates", it was your main point for asking the pass change.

No. It's the main EVIDENCE of the change needed. I've always pointed out the ridiculous formation matchup. You can't handle an overload formation and expect to have a great defense. That's why I want the change. And it's why I built a Zone coverage play that has appropriate matchups. And told you to go build plays with it.

When was the last time you built a S* CB for your Zone D?

Originally posted by Cybertron
Interesting...I'll have to keep an eye on it. All these changes could potentially have positive effects on zone defenses in some areas.

Still would really like to see Zone Shark opened up to just playing Zone, period.

Also from very limited testing, Man players seem to be making a lot more INTs.

Now that is an overthrow. I don't recall seeing many throws like this.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814533/1873392

Originally posted by Cybertron
Now that is an overthrow. I don't recall seeing many throws like this.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814533/1873392

I don't think I've ever seen a pass where the ball is on target but just over the receivers head on an out route like that. That honestly looks really good.