Warrior General Games

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Competing. Running the ball and passing, trying to score one more point than the opponent. Against the top three defenses I see at a glance they scored 30,20, and 24 all wins. Perfect imo. It's not suppose to be easy.

What should be easy is to put up the same numbers typical real teams do. To put up numbers better than typical teams do is what should be hard.

Or to put it another way, it makes defense too easy. Again, there is a huge difference from last season when it was ridiculous. It is not ridiculous this season. But a 50% completion percentage, any pro team or any non-overmatched NCAA team can do in their sleep. I don't think it's there yet.

And, you didn't give stats for the games. The team you own is doing absolutely super and blowing everyone out. You have no problem on offense or defense; you haven't scored as few as 20 in a non-scrimmage, though the most you've given up in a non-scrimmage is 13. That was just one game, and otherwise, you give up from 0 to 10. So, the team you own is phenomenal and you're likely a fantastic coach on both sides of the ball. That's probably the team you mean, as I just looked at the QB's stats and they fit, and you must be counting scrimmages as the best D's you've faced.

In games that count, your QB is killing some teams that probably are horrendous teams with poorly built and/or cpu non-S*s running cpu or even worse defenses. He's getting in his best game over 16 ypa and a 72.7% comp%. He also had 6 TD passes. Amazingly that team he played is 8-6 so can't be too bad. I really thought I'd go to their page and see they were 3-11 or something, but they aren't.

My first conclusion is that it's wrong to say that you're just looking to make things easy on yourself, because you're obviously fantastic at the game and will win in any meta that doesn't hugely change the value of builds.

My second thought is that you want to keep offense a challenge for yourself, but apparently don't mind that defense is no challenge for you. Except for one game among official games, you have yet to give up more than 10 points. Some of those you played had to be very good offenses. "It's not supposed to be easy" should apply to both sides of the ball equally, and you're good enough that nothing will be hard for you, I'd guess. But it should take as much excellence to stop opponents as to score on them.

I was referencing the same team you were. Bronx vs BSB, Kentucky, and KSA.

Things are not easy for me. If I spend 2-3 hours on a game plan and the team I face spends 15 minutes I should probably have a chance to win every game. The top teams are not there by accident or luck. I spent an entire season just coming up with the roster. It is really the opposite of what you think. It is easy for those who don't put the work and effort in, it is hard for those that do.

Originally posted by Nyria
I want to add that your look at Emerson's team did open my eyes to how bad bad coaching in GLB2 is. And how much bad coaching there is, maybe, because there are QBs doing a lot worse than Emerson is.

I'm thinking they need more and better premade playbooks on both offense and defense, so that anyone can put together a mediocre game plan by using them, because a lot of teams would be well off with mediocre game plans considering what they're using-- and then inflated stats from playing horrible teams, if the better default playbooks were used, would be less inflated.

The problem with this is with the changes made to the meta, effectiveness of plays will fluctuate. What I ran on defense last season does not work this season.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_


The top guys are not top guys by accident and the mediocre guys have little direction, call bad plays, and probably have questionable builds at best throughout the entire offense.

What is going to happen with a passing buff? Those middle guys will moderatly move up if at all while eli will be throwing for 75% and 800 ypg.

Agree....passing is fine.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_


The top guys are not top guys by accident and the mediocre guys have little direction, call bad plays, and probably have questionable builds at best throughout the entire offense.

What is going to happen with a passing buff? Those middle guys will moderatly move up if at all while eli will be throwing for 75% and 800 ypg.

The big problem is that passing plays are broken. This isn't a gameplanning issue, but a game mechanics problem. Speed WRs can't get separation, and possession receivers can't catch a cold consistently, for examples. Nearly all screens are a mess. That's why QBs are throwing like crap, and despite Xars continued believe that 40% passing is fine...it's not. I had to revert to HB screen/5WR spam just to even win the past 4 games, and it's just not fun having builds be meaningless, and gameplanning pointless if your team passes more than it runs.

As for Eli somehow throwing for 75% and 800 yards because passing is fixed? Come on OSIRIS you're one of the smartest agents around and better than that. He's a 300 yd passer in his best seasons, and fixing passing won't make him into Denali 2.0. I can understand those who want defense to matter, because I'm one of those people too. But the answer has always been for devs to fix pass defense mechanics...not to nerf passing to hell and drive agents away. It's the same problem rushing had before pathing was finally fixed after 30 some seasons. The AI determining the way defenders break on the ball when in the air, and the lack of good pass D plays that don't expose you badly to the run has always been the #1 problems. It's why deep passing was hard to stop(DBs would just lose the ball and WR), and why zone defense is useless against the pass. Fix that, and you fix passing defense. Add the tactics (deep/normal/loose) like we've been asking for a while. Add better pass defense SAs too(last off-season was a good start). There's a lot that could be done, we have how many of these threads laying them out over the years?

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Competing. Running the ball and passing, trying to score one more point than the opponent. Against the top three defenses I see at a glance they scored 30,20, and 24 all wins. Perfect imo. It's not suppose to be easy.

correct, one of the best metas we have had in a long time. you cant just rush, just pass, or just spam 5 plays for wins, you have to scout any openings the defense gives you and hope that gives you an edge to pull out a close game.

2-3 seasons ago it was 50-40 every game, last season was pass 80x and run on 3rd and 1, so compared to either of those the game is in a good place.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
As for Eli somehow throwing for 75% and 800 yards because passing is fixed? Come on OSIRIS you're one of the smartest agents around and better than that. He's a 300 yd passer in his best seasons, and fixing passing won't make him into Denali 2.0.

he would throw for 75% but not 800 yards. considering we mostly pass on 2nd/long and 3rd down, that is a lot of conversions lol

in the past we would avg a punt ~2 per game vs top competition, this season we have had plenty of 8 punt type of games, so osiris has a point in the fact that boosting the passing in this current sim would lead to teams like BB, BSB, whoville, etc who run balanced to convert even higher % and keep the chains moving even better, while passing teams may still struggle with pass defensive playcalls and pass play tags

Originally posted by Sov.
he would throw for 75% but not 800 yards. considering we mostly pass on 2nd/long and 3rd down, that is a lot of conversions lol

in the past we would avg a punt ~2 per game vs top competition, this season we have had plenty of 8 punt type of games, so osiris has a point in the fact that boosting the passing in this current sim would lead to teams like BB, BSB, whoville, etc who run balanced to convert even higher % and keep the chains moving even better, while passing teams may still struggle with pass defensive playcalls and pass play tags

I wondered if there was a way to measure how defenses were doing. Part of me wonders if people get worked up over gaudy offensive stats (produced largely because some opponents are no good) because they're obvious, where I don't think there are team defensive stats in the sim. But the best defenses, again largely because some of the offenses are awful, probably allow 3 ypa and under 40% completions overall. That's fine, because a lot of their opponents have cruddy offenses; but it's only fine if it's okay if, given top QB's/RB's play some cruddy defenses, if top QB's can complete 70% with 9 ypa overall and top RB's get 7 ypc-- both sides looking better because they outclass half their opponents.

How many punts...that works to get an idea: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/punting/sort/punts The median NFL punts were 75 per season per team, a little over 3 per game, so when evenly matched teams play, 3-4 punts per team per game should be typical, such that 8 punt games should be much less common than 2 punt games. A cruddy offense playing a great defense, might punt 10 times a game, fine-- heck, maybe more. But then a great offense against a cruddy defense should almost never have to punt.

I like that interceptions are more like realistic rates, though when I was here years ago ypa/comp% were somewhat low but interception percentages were also too low, so QBRatings were about right. Passing was lower reward than real life, but also lower risk. Now its risk is more in line with real life, which is great, but great only so long as the reward is in line also.

And to some extent build choices will set the direction of risk vs. reward. If people put a lot into intercepting to increase that chance, interceptions will be high, but they'll have less points for other aspects of coverage so ypa/comp% will also rise...which is a reason the QBRating, which includes all of those, is a good way to judge the overall package.

These stats are not way out of line. It's last season that defense was ridiculously strong, not this season. Right now only some minor things to help the passing game are called for-- heck, do the one thing that Osiris himself suggested in Suggestions and make QB's follow coaching orders to never keep the TE in if told to never do so. That alone might be enough, because going too far would be very bad, also. I'd say things are not bad so it makes sense to be cautious in changing things more than something small, though. "Rattled" doesn't cut it. The football coach says at practice, "You say you were rattled?! I'll show you rattled!!" and then the QB runs ridiculous amounts of laps, etc.. Or better yet, there is no audible for a TE to stay in. So, do that alone, a small buff like that, to something I'd want changed even if offenses were dominating (in which case then one would also buff defenses more, but still that change would need making because coaches give their players orders and any coach who can handle a practice makes sure they're followed).

Originally posted by Sov.
he would throw for 75% but not 800 yards. considering we mostly pass on 2nd/long and 3rd down, that is a lot of conversions lol

in the past we would avg a punt ~2 per game vs top competition, this season we have had plenty of 8 punt type of games, so osiris has a point in the fact that boosting the passing in this current sim would lead to teams like BB, BSB, whoville, etc who run balanced to convert even higher % and keep the chains moving even better, while passing teams may still struggle with pass defensive playcalls and pass play tags

Eli's top season was 69% with 8.4 y/a though. This season he's 60% with 7.1 y/a. The only thing that would happen is he would go back to what he used to be. The key to your passing attack has be Shockney, correct? I see no problem with great QB & TE builds excelling, that's what we want instead of RNG.

On the flipside, Jeter had 55 carries with 462 yards. It's perplexing to hear that QBs struggling to make routine passes is fine because they'll become OP, while teams can just run their combobacks 40-50 times and rack up major yardage. The Lions ran their offense through Barry Sanders and the Dolphins lived off the arm of Marino, both styles are valid. The CPU team we played threw for 34.9%, it's just ugly. The Cowboys threw for 23.4% against the Bombers. Almost every game is a blowout these days like GLB1 is/was, because once morale hits...the RNG goes wild in favor of the leading team. Kentucky's a great team, but they shouldn't be beating Mango 72-7, and Mango's QB shouldn't be throwing for 32%. A few seasons ago that game would be a nail-biter going into the 4th quarter.

I think the key to Bronx's passing attack is Jeter. Staying out of 3rd and long can net you a high % passing game. What's a routine pass anyways? Passing into a pass defense with pass tags does not sound like a very successful plan. Jeter is picking up almost 300 ypg. I would have to account for that, maybe even key on that opening things up for their passing game. If you know exactly what is coming you should have a great chance of completely shutting it down. People keep trying to shove round pegs into square holes and then saying it's broke, even though the square peg is right in front of them.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
The Lions ran their offense through Barry Sanders and the Dolphins lived off the arm of Marino, both styles are valid.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/1995.htm
592 Passing attempts
413 Rushes

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/team/1667
990 Passing attempts
125 Rushes

Like, every season Marino was playing, they were damn near a 60-40 split, with a little variation both ways season to season. At no point were they passing 90%+ of the time.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/1994.htm (the year Sanders won MVP)
459 Passing attempts
406 Rushes

It's worth noting that Sanders was targeted on 65 of those passes, but it's still a pretty far cry from the "rush every single down of every single game" type of thing you're advocating for.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
I think the key to Bronx's passing attack is Jeter. Staying out of 3rd and long can net you a high % passing game. What's a routine pass anyways? Passing into a pass defense with pass tags does not sound like a very successful plan. Jeter is picking up almost 300 ypg. I would have to account for that, maybe even key on that opening things up for their passing game. If you know exactly what is coming you should have a great chance of completely shutting it down. People keep trying to shove round pegs into square holes and then saying it's broke, even though the square peg is right in front of them.

Let's first acknowledge that we're nonchalantly talking about Jeter getting 300 yards like it's normal by NFL standards.

I'm happy Jeter is back to beastmode because great builds should be great, but it's weird that HBs can rush the ball 40 times a game and that's ok...but QBs passing the ball 60 times is frowned upon. And yes, having a RB dominate is a big advantage to the passing attack, but Shockney is a brilliant TE build and the main engine behind their passing offense. It's his ability to convert on 3rd & long that's more important for passing. Eli isn't putting up 75% comp or 800 yards a game by fixing passing. He's a 65-68% with 300-350 yards QB, which mirrors a NFL QB.

We've had teams in the same division nearly every season of late, you should know I'm not a round peg into a square hole type coach. I like the Xs and Os of the game, but the Xs look more like Ws right now.

This is why i hate the nfl comparisons. NFL and 30 games of GLB dont compare for fun.

Own a wr and you dont want 500 receiving yards through 16 games. That sucks.

Originally posted by Corndog
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/1995.htm
592 Passing attempts
413 Rushes

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/team/1667
990 Passing attempts
125 Rushes

Originally posted by Corndog
Like, every season Marino was playing, they were damn near a 60-40 split, with a little variation both ways season to season. At no point were they passing 90%+ of the time.
LOL, Corn I was talking more about style of play, not literally saying the ratios of either team mirrored GLB. I mean everything is extreme in GLB, right? Walter Payton at his best was carrying the ball 20-25 times a game, while that it dwarfed by GLB RBs who can rush twice the amount and still have good stamina throughout the game.

Originally posted by Corndog
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/1994.htm (the year Sanders won MVP)
459 Passing attempts
406 Rushes

It's worth noting that Sanders was targeted on 65 of those passes, but it's still a pretty far cry from the "rush every single down of every single game" type of thing you're advocating for.
Yeh, I never advocated for "rush every single down of every single game". Though if someone wants to do that, that's fine with me. There's an inherent disadvantage to a heavy-pass or heavy run offense, since defense knows what to target. There's pluses/minuses to GE's zone defense. There's are pros & cons to pretty much any type of team system at the end of the day. I don't get why now all teams need to be 50/50, this game thrives on variety.