Warrior General Games

Bringing speed down is NOT the right answer, either. Until there's a good reason for the defense to bring their speed down, that is.

When every pro level LB/FS/SS/CB is running around with 110+ speed, you can't compete without it.

Originally posted by jrry32
WRs are nerfed beyond reason because they can't get separation, their VAs suck and knocked loose kills them...and people wonder why so many teams #1 WR is a HB? Drago, keep speaking the truth.

WE JUST NEED TO THROW MORE RB SCREEN PASSES! THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE.

I LOVE HOW JUST ABOUT EVERY FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT PRO LEAGUE LAST YEAR HAD A RB WHO LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RECEIVING YARDAGE. THAT MAKES FOR GREAT DOTBALL, LET'S JUST THROW PUSSY ASS SCREENS AND HB OUTS ALL DAY.

Drago 4 mod

Originally posted by steellithium
Look, I don't like how leveling bonuses are set up either, but speed for a WR comes at a higher cost. The leveling bonus suck for primaries. LB's face the same problem. A WR can get carrying capped pretty high early due to the .5 bonus. When I see a WR with 40 carrying, that means that person completely wasted their leveling bonus.

By wasting their leveling bonus on carrying at the cap that means they have to forfeit the .25 leveling bonus on speed at much higher cap levels which is a higher net gain than carrying. So even that is just a poor argument.

Originally posted by ATL_DirtyBird
Originally posted by jrry32

WRs are nerfed beyond reason because they can't get separation, their VAs suck and knocked loose kills them...and people wonder why so many teams #1 WR is a HB? Drago, keep speaking the truth.

And they tried to hide it by adding the new WR plays and while they are pretty good, really won't help if you aren't getting separation to avoid the KLs.

Separation? HAHAHAHA! SEPARATION DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING MATTER. I LINKED A PLAY LAST YEAR WHERE THE DEFENDER GOT FUCKING PUMP FAKED, AND CAME BACK TO MAKE THE KNOCKED LOOSE PLAY. It's in here started from yours truly a few pages back.

What if QBs could throw further? Would this help to lead the burners so they do not get tackled right after they catch the ball?

Originally posted by taurran
Bringing speed down is NOT the right answer, either. Until there's a good reason for the defense to bring their speed down, that is.

When every pro level LB/FS/SS/CB is running around with 110+ speed, you can't compete without it.

There already is a good reason. Defenders need vision/tackling/strength/agility as well. The only reason speed is pumped is to keep up with WR's. It is a stupid cold war, that keeps every position from living up to their potential. Many defenders have already started backing off speed to be able to tackle power backs.

Originally posted by Galkuris
Originally posted by Darth Asheme

Let's not forget that this is, in essence, a PvP game, and every attack needs a counter. Right now, any defender can cause a KL, and no one has any idea how. Jackhammer helps, and there's a STR req on it, but we've all seen 25 STR CBs and 40 STR safeties KL with regularity. Carrying is supposed to be the counter, but how can you counter something that doesn't seem to require any tangible attribute?

From what I saw part way through last season there was a direct correlation between KL pass percentage and carrying+strength. Last season we did a little test on our team with strength+carrying vs drops (obviously not all KL, but the difference in catching with the guys tested isn't much). They all went in order of highest s+c = lowest drops. The difference between 50 to 65/70 was very noticeable, while the difference between 70 and 100 was lower (but still noticeable).

Also, lets be real guys, KL passes happen often enough irl. If there weren't this many KL passes then we would just need something else to counter the passing offense.

Finally, I don't get the whole comparison with catching and KL. It doesn't take a genius to figure there should be little correlation between them. If a LB comes and crushes a WR right after a catch it makes no difference if they actually had good hands or not.

It also doesn't take a genius to figure out PLAYS LIKE THAT HAPPEN 4-5 TIMES A GAME, MAX IRL.

Islam IMO.

Originally posted by steellithium
There already is a good reason. Defenders need vision/tackling/strength/agility as well. The only reason speed is pumped is to keep up with WR's. It is a stupid cold war, that keeps every position from living up to their potential. Many defenders have already started backing off speed to be able to tackle power backs.

CB's are being taught that 90 speed is enough to keep up with the fastest receivers. Plus, they probably have the best SA's and VA's to boot.

Originally posted by AngryDragon
What if QBs could throw further? Would this help to lead the burners so they do not get tackled right after they catch the ball?

Some but even that wouldn't solve the problem. There is such a huge diminishing return on speed that corners just don't need very much to keep up with fast WRs save for a handful of guys in the game.

Originally posted by PierreThomas
By wasting their leveling bonus on carrying at the cap that means they have to forfeit the .25 leveling bonus on speed at much higher cap levels which is a higher net gain than carrying. So even that is just a poor argument.



What math are you doing? You are saying .5 is less than .33. If you are going to put points into carrying, you get more out of those points in the long run than you well from speed. You only lose 1 or 2 points from speed by capping carrying before speed. Once it is capped, it will gain much faster than speed ever will.

Originally posted by steellithium
There already is a good reason. Defenders need vision/tackling/strength/agility as well. The only reason speed is pumped is to keep up with WR's. It is a stupid cold war, that keeps every position from living up to their potential. Many defenders have already started backing off speed to be able to tackle power backs.

Yeah, bad argument. LBs don't ever cover WRs even though they could. DEs don't have to worry about keeping up with WRs even though they can run them down. Cbs and safeties are the only positions that have to worry about keeping up with WRs and ironically Cbs are the second slowest position on a good defense outside of DTs and I have some DTs as fast as my corners. .

Originally posted by steellithium
There already is a good reason. Defenders need vision/tackling/strength/agility as well. The only reason speed is pumped is to keep up with WR's. It is a stupid cold war, that keeps every position from living up to their potential. Many defenders have already started backing off speed to be able to tackle power backs.

I disagree on the attribute part, but it is like an escalation. My high level LB has almost 115 speed, and still is able to roll with 70 str, 70 tackling, and 64ish vision, which is plenty to stop anything that comes his way.

WRs and TEs need: Speed, Agility, Jumping, Catching, Vision, Carrying, Stamina, and Confidence. Good TE's will have a bit of STR as well.

The defense doesn't REALLY have it so bad.

Speed is always king, just as in real football. Handicapping it on one side of the ball isn't the right answer.

Originally posted by steellithium
What math are you doing? You are saying .5 is less than .33. If you are going to put points into carrying, you get more out of those points in the long run than you well from speed. You only lose 1 or 2 points from speed by capping carrying before speed. Once it is capped, it will gain much faster than speed ever will.

When speed is at 75 then each .33 is essentially worth 5 times that since it would cost 5 skill points to increase speed by 1 point at that level. This makes the .33 auto leveling point worth 1.65 skill points in value compared to .5 or even 1 if carrying is past the cap.

I use math that sees the bigger picture.