Warrior General Games

hrm, thanks for looking out. my level 13 guard's build was open. whups.

and yes, its my level 12 guard. Its a little misleading, I have 8 equipment on blocking so he's at the 2 cap there.

Originally posted by RAPB
Originally posted by she didnt choke on a salad

Strength: 56.36 Blocking: 56.21
Speed: 8 Tackling: 12.75
Agility: 14.31 Throwing: 8
Jumping: 10 Catching: 9
Stamina: 22.75 Carrying: 9
Vision: 21.04 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 25.36 Punting: 9

strength is at 0.07 per day, lol.

I have no SAs.


You don't have a player that matches that attributes.

Your lv. 13 guard has his stats open and your lv. 12 guard sure didn't get that far already. Your lv. 24 OT sure would have gone further if you put none in the trees; my lv. 21 guard is at the '60s cap and has quite a bit more into stamina, agility, confidence and the trees.

So what player are you talking about?

... or did you just forget to change to your double account?

I'm flattered.

And no, I didn't slow build anybody. My guy is the result of spending every single SP i've ever earned on strength and blocking. I'm "slow building" agility, as it were. I'm getting like .4 or .5 agility a day on just training, so why put SPs there?

And what I do I don't consider "pro building" I call it "not wasting your SPs filling up both SA trees" building. Many guards at my level already every both SA trees filled up at 2. That's at least 20 SPs that could be better spent elsewhere.


Oh and thanks for blowing my guy's cover, everybody. I was hoping to escape the eyes of any opposing DC in my league.

What I am doing with my Center is dropping 2 points on STR and the 3 split between vis and agil.

Originally posted by she didnt choke on a salad
hrm, thanks for looking out. my level 13 guard's build was open. whups.

and yes, its my level 12 guard. Its a little misleading, I have 8 equipment on blocking so he's at the 2 cap there.


A lv. 12 could be that far with equipment. So you're really at

Strength: 56.36 Blocking: 48.21
Speed: 8 Tackling: 12.75
Agility: 14.31 Throwing: 8
Jumping: 10 Catching: 9
Stamina: 22.75 Carrying: 9
Vision: 21.04 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 25.36 Punting: 9

Well... since you're there, cap strength at lv. 14 at 60.7 (56.36 + 0.67 + 2 [keep 1 SP]= 59.03 + 0.67 + 1 [keep 4 SP]).

After that... depends on when you want your guy ready to work. Stamina needs about 10 points and agility 15 at least. Confidence could use something too and some SAs are needed for sure.

So you got to decide if you want your guy ready by end of this season or season 5. If by end of this season, I'd train up agility and spend 10 Skill Points into stamina and 4 into confidence first (4 "left over" at lv. 14 + lv. 15 & 16). Agility should be at like 20 at this point of time; so add lv. 17 - 18 there and train up speed a bit. Lv. 19+ (as far as you get this season), I'd put in the SAs. Some are actually quite useful.

If you got time till end of season 5:
Get blocking to the 60's cap at lv. 18:
(48.21 + 0.67 = 48.88 + 0.67 = 49.55 + 2 [4 SP of lv. 14]= 51.55 + 0.67 + 2 [keep 1 SP] = 54.22 + 0.67 + 3 = 57.89 + 0.67 + 2 = 60.56 [1 SP "left over"]).
Meanwhile you get reasonable training gains at stamina and confidence (I'd train that first up) - taking you to like 32 stam and confidence to 30. Next season, train up agility, vision and speed (a bit). Spend some Skill Points at stamina, confidence and the SAs, but make sure you got 10 to add as soon as agility is up to like 25.

(Of course, your guy will rather suck while building up this way.)

Just my personal view.


____________________________
And to those melancholic slow builders: feel free to spend another 2 or 3 seasons chasing soft caps and enjoy having the highest attributes amongst your level. Too bad, you already lost (at least) 10 Skill Points by leveling slower than any other player created at the same date. But I'm sure, you can train that up someday somehow.

Originally posted by RAPB

____________________________
And to those melancholic slow builders: feel free to spend another 2 or 3 seasons chasing soft caps and enjoy having the highest attributes amongst your level. Too bad, you already lost (at least) 10 Skill Points by leveling slower than any other player created at the same date. But I'm sure, you can train that up someday somehow.

actually, you are right.

::que?::

Well if there's any consolation, I haven't boosted my guy yet. Well I boosted him 3x last season, so unboosted, I would be at level 10 right now. Stamina/vision/confidence would pretty much have been the same at around 20, and if you took 15 SPs away from my guy, I'd probably be around the 2:1 soft cap at both strength and blocking.

I'd say we're about equal in terms of build. I think your guy has the slight advantage, since I wasted some SPs into stamina (to get it up to 20) in the beginning. Everything else, however came from training. I have unusually high confidence for a Guard, but that's just the way my dice rolled.

I seem to notice the seasons going by much more quickly and I don't know if I want to use up 1/10 or 1/5 of my guy's usefulness being slow-built. I think slow building pretty much is one of the more effective ways to build a guy, but I need to worry about my team being competitive.

The opposing D-Linemen on the other teams are level 16+ so already my guy is facing guys with at least a 3 level advantage. Though its fun to go over trying to squeeze an extra SP or two out of the slow building technique, i will probably boost once I hit level 16 or so, as I believe the difference between boosting early and late become neglible.

Originally posted by RAPB
Originally posted by she didnt choke on a salad

hrm, thanks for looking out. my level 13 guard's build was open. whups.

and yes, its my level 12 guard. Its a little misleading, I have 8 equipment on blocking so he's at the 2 cap there.


Meanwhile you get reasonable training gains at stamina and confidence (I'd train that first up) - taking you to like 32 stam and confidence to 30. Next season, train up agility, vision and speed (a bit). Spend some Skill Points at stamina, confidence and the SAs, but make sure you got 10 to add as soon as agility is up to like 25.



I appreciate the advice on Stamina but my philosophy is to keep it around where it is, spend the SP on strength or blocking, and depend on a good backup. If I hope to max out at around 40 plays, then the remaining 30+ plays can go to my backup. If we both keep at around 25 Stamina, then we will both have extra SPs to be really good linemen ^_^.

You could say that I'm doing a variant of slow building; its probably not as effective as the traditional form, but its a form that lets me compete in live games against other humans.

I agree with the stamina/backup idea to a point. it's extremely valid in the beginning when those points are so valuable elsewhere, but eventually you run out of things to train, and might as well use it on stamina. I figure that will happen around the end of the 3rd season of a players life. (that, of course, assumes you aren't trying to 2-cap more than 3 stats and that you are happy with stats in the low to mid 30s.)


(i haven't boosted my guy this season yet either, so it's not truly an early vs late boost question, it's just equivalent since my guy is lvl 9 and your guy is lvl 13. re: my guy will gain about a level on your guy assuming equal playing time this season and the 4 level gap should be reduced to a 3 level gap.)

i actually removed my post because I decided it wasn't really worth getting into the debate. My guy is currently in an expansion league, and he's doing pretty well in the first half of games. Admittedly he's lacking some stamina, so he's not capable of playing an entire game. But he is playing enough to more or less max xp gain, so I'm not falling behind in levels. I admit that he didn't get to be useful last season, so he definitely lost a season, but as long as players get to play beyond 10 seasons, I tend to believe that it won't be 1/10th of my guys life. (at least I'm really hoping, heh)

quote:

i will probably boost once I hit level 16 or so, as I believe the difference between boosting early and late become neglible.


--

Totally, completely wrong! I made a file that calculates the XP loss given your level and XP considering boosting day 0 or boosting day 32 (assume atleast do it for playoffs). I didn't bother lower than 18, as that's the lowest level on my team, but even then the XP loss is 700. If you're level 16, the difference between day 0 and day 40 is probably close to an entire level. Also, you're looking at lower training gain because your attributes will be higher the entire season. In all, the loss is probably 6-7 SP still.

Ok, so when DOES it become negligible?

Also, once I reach my caps, then I plan on stacking some SAs :-p

And the boosting early vs late argument also comes into play if its to the benefit of you team. if I'm level 19, I have a way better chance at winning the game, which helps my team.

I think there is a balance that needs to be reached.

If I were a backup, then yeah, I would hold off. But if my team is in playoff contention, I would sacrifice some XP for the sake of the team.

My level 22 OT entered the season with 850 XP, and the loss for boosting early would be about 500 XP. Some changes to training (a floor of 25) brings this down a bit, but as long as XP per game changes by level, it will never become negligible. Even if it gets to a difference of 5XP/game/level, that's still 15 XP/game for 3 boosts, over 16 games is 240XP a season - I guess that's pretty negligible but the data I found up through level 30 still has larger gaps of XP you obtain as you level up.


But yeah, you'll lose a level/season up to 15, and a level per two seasons up through 25ish, and after that I guess its pretty long-term negligible. Players who boost start of season every season will end up 4-5 levels back, no doubt., in the long run.


Hmm, that's not on topic though, so yeah... Ah well...

Originally posted by she didnt choke on a salad
Originally posted by RAPB

Originally posted by she didnt choke on a salad


hrm, thanks for looking out. my level 13 guard's build was open. whups.

and yes, its my level 12 guard. Its a little misleading, I have 8 equipment on blocking so he's at the 2 cap there.


Meanwhile you get reasonable training gains at stamina and confidence (I'd train that first up) - taking you to like 32 stam and confidence to 30. Next season, train up agility, vision and speed (a bit). Spend some Skill Points at stamina, confidence and the SAs, but make sure you got 10 to add as soon as agility is up to like 25.



I appreciate the advice on Stamina but my philosophy is to keep it around where it is, spend the SP on strength or blocking, and depend on a good backup. If I hope to max out at around 40 plays, then the remaining 30+ plays can go to my backup. If we both keep at around 25 Stamina, then we will both have extra SPs to be really good linemen ^_^.

You could say that I'm doing a variant of slow building; its probably not as effective as the traditional form, but its a form that lets me compete in live games against other humans.


Stamina is not only about splitting playtime. As your guy gets tired, he receives penalties on his attributes. Bort once said "a really tired player plays at about half his abilities".

So - roughly estimated (since 10 is as low as you can get during gametime): at 55 breath you loose about 25 % of your attributes. That's

- 60 strength going down to 45 strength
- 70 blocking going down to 52.5 blocking

At this point a fresh lv. 12 can compete with your guy.

Just mentioning. It's your choice still.

---------------------------

to the slow building guys: my SS leveled in D-leagues last season from 4 to 12 (+3 boosts afterwards); that's 8 levels. A lv. 1 sure gets to 9 or even 10 if everything goes right (that's +5 or even +10 Skill Points compared to a slow builder that gains "only" 8 levels).
Most slow builders don't take care of stamina early. But in fact it's the most important stat early for it provides you those 50+ snaps needed for perfect leveling. And this effect provides much more than 40 days of additional +0.1 training gains (that's only 4 Points in fact).

but my games always end with my guy at around 75 stamina or so..... and currently there's no way to figure out, in game, when my guy is at 55 breath or whatever.

plus I have subrates that take the guy out before he ever reaches that point.