Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Mr_Victor
Cant the WR just take Ball Hawk too? It is open to offence and defence

It is a bit nerfed for the offense. It will not work, up the Y axis. (Can't go faster downfield at all)

So on any kind of OVERthrown ball, it's not going to turn on. There's an old Q&A around somewhere that went into that part of it being squashed.

It will work on passes off target to the side, or underthrown, but as SmithW pointed out, getting to the catch point earlier ... when the game has already decided in step 1 of the "interaction" for passes, that a successful pick occurred by jumping the route - (from that 80+ catching DB), it's not going to help at all. Why we have so many weird looking replays, where the DB picks it off 8-10 yards underneath the receiver ... on a ball that would be impossibly high in real life to pick off. And more infuriatingly - that DB probably has 40-50 jumping, just enough to activate BH ... that part is what gets me as far as 'balance'. It should 100% require more jumping, to make those picks, and not scale SO hard on catching ...

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
IMO ... Adjusting QB bullet/loft would go a long way.
(
It would be nice to get rid of the slider completely, and just dial up the speed of the thrown ball to bullet level, without the bullet trajectory. Maybe even scale up the effect of QB Strength on the velocity


These parts I agree with completely and have thought for a long time.

What if we made a moonshot request, to get some logic put in to throws to adjust the "bullet"/"loft" ratio based on the actual characteristics of each throw? One easy way might be based on the ratio of distance thrown horizontally to vertically, right? I mean, a QB almost always throws an out route hard and flat (big ratio of H/V), but very often throws a deep route or seam route with more air under it (small ratio of H/V). It wouldn't be perfect, but certainly much better than just having one setting for your QB for every throw made the entire game, right? So for each throw, calculate that ratio for the target that the QB is aiming at, and then the bullet/loft ratio would be calculated and applied to that throw.

I also completely agree with thrown balls needing to travel much faster in comparison to players running, whether that would be done just with a scaling Speed nerf to get rid of the crazy top speeds that builders can get to, or whether it's done with a boost to the average speed of passes (which I guess might be easier to concoct/apply).

The napkin math on converting yards per second to MPH is amazingly simple. Multiply by 2. Like 10 yards per second (which would be a 4 flat 40 yard dash) is 20 MPH. So it seems like to scale dotball to RL would mean the ball should travel approximately 3 times as fast as a dot.

It wouldn't matter if dots can run a calculated 50 MPH, as long as the scaling matches. We don't care if the dot QB throws a calculated 150 MPH.

Details like that can be explained with overall replay Speed. Like watching a game on 2X>>

But also.... I really believe in the Jumping thing. That trade off for WRs is rough. The minor in Jumping for Speed WRs is borderline inconsequential. The minor in Speed for Possession WRs is a huge handicap.

There should be some adjustment made to increase the value of Jumping somehow to offset the loss in Speed.

I don't think Bort has any interest in making changes to the sim. This game doesn't generate enough revenue for him to justify the time and effort imo. I've only been back for a year, so maybe you guys know something I don't, but the changelog suggests the last major sim changes took place more than 10 years ago, with the exception of the Dotpocalypse.

Now, if the user base increased, maybe by sending promotional emails to all of the former users, then maybe that would change. That has also been suggested before and hasn't gone anywhere.

How would we feel about a super easy adjustment to Ballhawk?

Instead of Speed/Vision/Agility.... what if it was Speed/Vision/Jumping?


Something that simple seems like it could go on Bort's to-do list

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
How would we feel about a super easy adjustment to Ballhawk?

Instead of Speed/Vision/Agility.... what if it was Speed/Vision/Jumping?


Something that simple seems like it could go on Bort's to-do list



I'd be perfectly fine with a simple adjustment which is more likely to happen and one that doesn't render DB's hopeless like Dusk883 mentioned before, but balance is paramount to make throws to WR's viable.

To what you're asking with jumping, is this with also making jumping more prominent in the rolls for INT like what was mentioned? I would almost say maybe replacing speed or lowering the effect of speed in the equation also?

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
How would we feel about a super easy adjustment to Ballhawk?

Instead of Speed/Vision/Agility.... what if it was Speed/Vision/Jumping?


Something that simple seems like it could go on Bort's to-do list



Or just take the speed multiplier out of the equation.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
How would we feel about a super easy adjustment to Ballhawk?

Instead of Speed/Vision/Agility.... what if it was Speed/Vision/Jumping?


Something that simple seems like it could go on Bort's to-do list



what about Jumping/Vision/Agility? That way teleport will decrease.

EDIT: or what Kurt suggested. just take away speed.

Then it gets complicated.

If Jumping is more incentivized, it might shift the meta.

(Which, by the way, I recently learned was an acronym:
Most Effective Tactics Available)

It would also boost Possession WRs.

No one complains about how agile defenders are, so in theory, the effects on defense dots should be minimal.

Originally posted by Kenshinzen
what about Jumping/Vision/Agility? That way teleport will decrease.

EDIT: or what Kurt suggested. just take away speed.

Unfortunately, the Speed boost is vital for basic zone defense. We can't cripple the Cover 2, and just allow every WR to be 180 Speed machines.

*AhemDarthWhoeverCough*

If a change will ever to be considered I believe it would have to something easy to implement.

How about making speed a .5% increase as opposed to a 1%??? Something along those lines might be easy to implement.

Originally posted by Kurt Davey
If a change will ever to be considered I believe it would have to something easy to implement.

How about making speed a .5% increase as opposed to a 1%??? Something along those lines might be easy to implement.

I asked the same thing above about limiting speed in the equation because TJ is right along with Dusk883 from before that removing speed would make defensive coverage players liable, but there needs to be some sort of balance because WR's require a lot of supporting attributes to make catches and avoid KL etc. That boost to speed essentially allows DB's to not invest as much in it to spread their attributes elsewhere

Originally posted by jcross
That boost to speed essentially allows DB's to not invest as much in it to spread their attributes elsewhere

So build an inferior CB but say hey I don't care, i can put 15 points in Ball Hawk and I can cover anyone??


All I hear is DB's teleporting to the spot Is the problem yet no one wants to nerf the speed on Ball Hawk because it will hurt other defensive coverages. Get rid of the boost or nerf it in half and then players will have to adjust how they build DB's. No way a 155 speed CB should be able to cover a 170 speed WR.

Originally posted by Kurt Davey
So build an inferior CB but say hey I don't care, i can put 15 points in Ball Hawk and I can cover anyone??


All I hear is DB's teleporting to the spot Is the problem yet no one wants to nerf the speed on Ball Hawk because it will hurt other defensive coverages. Get rid of the boost or nerf it in half and then players will have to adjust how they build DB's. No way a 155 speed CB should be able to cover a 170 speed WR.



I want to nerf the speed as someone who loves building WR's and only builds offense, but want to make sure that the pendulum doesn't swing too drastically the other way! I was just listing a bonus to Ball Hawk that I'm sure that DB's or coverage players use while investing in Ball Hawk