GG Cleveland! Fun back and forth, humbling loss to you guys in the tourney.
Forum > Prep Leagues > S110 - Birds of a Feather
Originally posted by Ravenwood
Really interesting debate: to early boost, or not. Our team is going the 'not' route for the most part, but I totally appreciate DolphinFan's point - it's a choice: short term pain for what will (hopefully, but not necessarily) be long term gain.
Someone (I forget who) once said they wish Bort would just do away with the early boost option for dots created after day 40, if only to create a more level playing field. I would support that change, 100 percent.
I look at it as a personal choice because either way once you get to Pro Level the proper Coordinator(s) must be in place to win it all. However, it would be nice to have a level playing field on the way up as well, not that I really care much about lower levels. What is pitiful are the teams that have 10 Levels on teams going up the ladder just to shit the bed when getting to Pro. That tells you everything you need to know about that team and their Coordinator(s). Just sayin...
Really interesting debate: to early boost, or not. Our team is going the 'not' route for the most part, but I totally appreciate DolphinFan's point - it's a choice: short term pain for what will (hopefully, but not necessarily) be long term gain.
Someone (I forget who) once said they wish Bort would just do away with the early boost option for dots created after day 40, if only to create a more level playing field. I would support that change, 100 percent.
I look at it as a personal choice because either way once you get to Pro Level the proper Coordinator(s) must be in place to win it all. However, it would be nice to have a level playing field on the way up as well, not that I really care much about lower levels. What is pitiful are the teams that have 10 Levels on teams going up the ladder just to shit the bed when getting to Pro. That tells you everything you need to know about that team and their Coordinator(s). Just sayin...
DolphinsFan4ever
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Originally posted by Mauler
I look at it as a personal choice because either way once you get to Pro Level the proper Coordinator(s) must be in place to win it all. However, it would be nice to have a level playing field on the way up as well, not that I really care much about lower levels. What is pitiful are the teams that have 10 Levels on teams going up the ladder just to shit the bed when getting to Pro. That tells you everything you need to know about that team and their Coordinator(s). Just sayin...
Yes 100% personal choice. It would be nice to have a level playing field but the ones looking for every minute advantage at the highest level are the issue, not the early boosters just trying to enjoy the entire experience.
For our specific example, we were ALWAYS good enough from season 20 to current times to crush the ladder, go anywhere from 12-4 to 16-0 in PRO only to just miss the highest level. We did make WL twice as Mayan Warriors and went 8-8 both seasons (back to back) after our 16-0 PRO. I was a lot more dedicated then than today and I'm one of the chief reasons it fucked up last run up the ladder as I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. If success is only beating those select three times run by just a few of you and spending countless hours scouting etc then we fail BUT we were in all the games this last time until we decided to experiment instead and that was with the brutally awful fuckups I did.
With early boosting we have some really nice dots projected out for the PROS. Our one running back is still looking at 1500 EL and looks strong. We will see but at least we having fun up the ladder as well.
Different strokes for different folks.
I look at it as a personal choice because either way once you get to Pro Level the proper Coordinator(s) must be in place to win it all. However, it would be nice to have a level playing field on the way up as well, not that I really care much about lower levels. What is pitiful are the teams that have 10 Levels on teams going up the ladder just to shit the bed when getting to Pro. That tells you everything you need to know about that team and their Coordinator(s). Just sayin...
Yes 100% personal choice. It would be nice to have a level playing field but the ones looking for every minute advantage at the highest level are the issue, not the early boosters just trying to enjoy the entire experience.
For our specific example, we were ALWAYS good enough from season 20 to current times to crush the ladder, go anywhere from 12-4 to 16-0 in PRO only to just miss the highest level. We did make WL twice as Mayan Warriors and went 8-8 both seasons (back to back) after our 16-0 PRO. I was a lot more dedicated then than today and I'm one of the chief reasons it fucked up last run up the ladder as I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. If success is only beating those select three times run by just a few of you and spending countless hours scouting etc then we fail BUT we were in all the games this last time until we decided to experiment instead and that was with the brutally awful fuckups I did.
With early boosting we have some really nice dots projected out for the PROS. Our one running back is still looking at 1500 EL and looks strong. We will see but at least we having fun up the ladder as well.
Different strokes for different folks.
Originally posted by DolphinsFan4ever
Yes 100% personal choice. It would be nice to have a level playing field but the ones looking for every minute advantage at the highest level are the issue, not the early boosters just trying to enjoy the entire experience.
For our specific example, we were ALWAYS good enough from season 20 to current times to crush the ladder, go anywhere from 12-4 to 16-0 in PRO only to just miss the highest level. We did make WL twice as Mayan Warriors and went 8-8 both seasons (back to back) after our 16-0 PRO. I was a lot more dedicated then than today and I'm one of the chief reasons it fucked up last run up the ladder as I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. If success is only beating those select three times run by just a few of you and spending countless hours scouting etc then we fail BUT we were in all the games this last time until we decided to experiment instead and that was with the brutally awful fuckups I did.
With early boosting we have some really nice dots projected out for the PROS. Our one running back is still looking at 1500 EL and looks strong. We will see but at least we having fun up the ladder as well.
Different strokes for different folks.
I wasn't pointing any team(s) out for doing what you guys are doing as I have seen it way to many times for me to really care. However, it does effect those teams that do care. I would say the "Mob" is really your own competition, but then again they have two Pro teams they have to game plan for so how much do they really care? So in effect doing what you are currently doing actually proves nothing and what you call "fun" is laughable as I play for the competition and nothing else. Bort could stop this, but he hasn't in the past so it falls in the "NGTH" category. Anyhow, best of luck and hopefully it pays off when it matters!
Yes 100% personal choice. It would be nice to have a level playing field but the ones looking for every minute advantage at the highest level are the issue, not the early boosters just trying to enjoy the entire experience.
For our specific example, we were ALWAYS good enough from season 20 to current times to crush the ladder, go anywhere from 12-4 to 16-0 in PRO only to just miss the highest level. We did make WL twice as Mayan Warriors and went 8-8 both seasons (back to back) after our 16-0 PRO. I was a lot more dedicated then than today and I'm one of the chief reasons it fucked up last run up the ladder as I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. If success is only beating those select three times run by just a few of you and spending countless hours scouting etc then we fail BUT we were in all the games this last time until we decided to experiment instead and that was with the brutally awful fuckups I did.
With early boosting we have some really nice dots projected out for the PROS. Our one running back is still looking at 1500 EL and looks strong. We will see but at least we having fun up the ladder as well.
Different strokes for different folks.
I wasn't pointing any team(s) out for doing what you guys are doing as I have seen it way to many times for me to really care. However, it does effect those teams that do care. I would say the "Mob" is really your own competition, but then again they have two Pro teams they have to game plan for so how much do they really care? So in effect doing what you are currently doing actually proves nothing and what you call "fun" is laughable as I play for the competition and nothing else. Bort could stop this, but he hasn't in the past so it falls in the "NGTH" category. Anyhow, best of luck and hopefully it pays off when it matters!
DolphinsFan4ever
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Originally posted by Mauler
I wasn't pointing any team(s) out for doing what you guys are doing as I have seen it way to many times for me to really care. However, it does effect those teams that do care. I would say the "Mob" is really your own competition, but then again they have two Pro teams they have to game plan for so how much do they really care? So in effect doing what you are currently doing actually proves nothing and what you call "fun" is laughable as I play for the competition and nothing else. Bort could stop this, but he hasn't in the past so it falls in the "NGTH" category. Anyhow, best of luck and hopefully it pays off when it matters!
You could also stop it by simply boosting early instead of trying to squeeze a miniscule kernal of extra advantage out of your roster. If you are a 'top' coordinator you should not need that minor boost. I find that more 'laughable' than us having fun up the ladder.
Honestly in the old days the top teams were able to compete up the ladder without this extra 'squeeze'. What we learned when we did our experiementing at the top and re-sent half a roster worth of dots back up slow building is it barely matters. These extra points at the start of the season can propel dots to a very similar place.
I just love how you guys blame the 'early boosters' for the gap in levels when really the blame lies on the great teams trying to 'game' the system for all its worth. You already have more time and experience at the top. Do you really need the extra 3%. Kind of pathetic but to each their own.
I wasn't pointing any team(s) out for doing what you guys are doing as I have seen it way to many times for me to really care. However, it does effect those teams that do care. I would say the "Mob" is really your own competition, but then again they have two Pro teams they have to game plan for so how much do they really care? So in effect doing what you are currently doing actually proves nothing and what you call "fun" is laughable as I play for the competition and nothing else. Bort could stop this, but he hasn't in the past so it falls in the "NGTH" category. Anyhow, best of luck and hopefully it pays off when it matters!
You could also stop it by simply boosting early instead of trying to squeeze a miniscule kernal of extra advantage out of your roster. If you are a 'top' coordinator you should not need that minor boost. I find that more 'laughable' than us having fun up the ladder.
Honestly in the old days the top teams were able to compete up the ladder without this extra 'squeeze'. What we learned when we did our experiementing at the top and re-sent half a roster worth of dots back up slow building is it barely matters. These extra points at the start of the season can propel dots to a very similar place.
I just love how you guys blame the 'early boosters' for the gap in levels when really the blame lies on the great teams trying to 'game' the system for all its worth. You already have more time and experience at the top. Do you really need the extra 3%. Kind of pathetic but to each their own.
Originally posted by DolphinsFan4ever
You could also stop it by simply boosting early instead of trying to squeeze a miniscule kernal of extra advantage out of your roster. If you are a 'top' coordinator you should not need that minor boost. I find that more 'laughable' than us having fun up the ladder.
Honestly in the old days the top teams were able to compete up the ladder without this extra 'squeeze'. What we learned when we did our experiementing at the top and re-sent half a roster worth of dots back up slow building is it barely matters. These extra points at the start of the season can propel dots to a very similar place.
I just love how you guys blame the 'early boosters' for the gap in levels when really the blame lies on the great teams trying to 'game' the system for all its worth. You already have more time and experience at the top. Do you really need the extra 3%. Kind of pathetic but to each their own.
Right, go back to do what your doing and we will see in the end what happens. It's not you guys I am worried about at the top LVL, but RC, Tom & others and how do they build their players? Unfortunately, the # of top coordinators has dwindled due to the age of the game. Like I said, I have no problem with agents boosting early, even on my own teams, but to brag about how good you are on the way up is laughable when you have a team that out levels 91% of the competition by 10 Levels as that really proves nothing. That is my two cents and probably why agents don't bother posting here. I will leave you with this and be done with it. What is the definition of Insanity?
You could also stop it by simply boosting early instead of trying to squeeze a miniscule kernal of extra advantage out of your roster. If you are a 'top' coordinator you should not need that minor boost. I find that more 'laughable' than us having fun up the ladder.
Honestly in the old days the top teams were able to compete up the ladder without this extra 'squeeze'. What we learned when we did our experiementing at the top and re-sent half a roster worth of dots back up slow building is it barely matters. These extra points at the start of the season can propel dots to a very similar place.
I just love how you guys blame the 'early boosters' for the gap in levels when really the blame lies on the great teams trying to 'game' the system for all its worth. You already have more time and experience at the top. Do you really need the extra 3%. Kind of pathetic but to each their own.
Right, go back to do what your doing and we will see in the end what happens. It's not you guys I am worried about at the top LVL, but RC, Tom & others and how do they build their players? Unfortunately, the # of top coordinators has dwindled due to the age of the game. Like I said, I have no problem with agents boosting early, even on my own teams, but to brag about how good you are on the way up is laughable when you have a team that out levels 91% of the competition by 10 Levels as that really proves nothing. That is my two cents and probably why agents don't bother posting here. I will leave you with this and be done with it. What is the definition of Insanity?
SmithsterSmitty
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Originally posted by Mauler
Right, go back to do what your doing and we will see in the end what happens. It's not you guys I am worried about at the top LVL, but RC, Tom & others and how do they build their players? Unfortunately, the # of top coordinators has dwindled due to the age of the game. Like I said, I have no problem with agents boosting early, even on my own teams, but to brag about how good you are on the way up is laughable when you have a team that out levels 91% of the competition by 10 Levels as that really proves nothing. That is my two cents and probably why agents don't bother posting here. I will leave you with this and be done with it. What is the definition of Insanity?
Who bragged in this thread BTW. Gosh if you don’t care this level, your choice man… we will see later. There’s nothing special done at the top. It’s just time invested
Right, go back to do what your doing and we will see in the end what happens. It's not you guys I am worried about at the top LVL, but RC, Tom & others and how do they build their players? Unfortunately, the # of top coordinators has dwindled due to the age of the game. Like I said, I have no problem with agents boosting early, even on my own teams, but to brag about how good you are on the way up is laughable when you have a team that out levels 91% of the competition by 10 Levels as that really proves nothing. That is my two cents and probably why agents don't bother posting here. I will leave you with this and be done with it. What is the definition of Insanity?
Who bragged in this thread BTW. Gosh if you don’t care this level, your choice man… we will see later. There’s nothing special done at the top. It’s just time invested
SmithsterSmitty
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Originally posted by Ravenwood
Is it really just a 3 percent difference in end-build? Slow building?
Probably 1 to 2 percent honestly
Is it really just a 3 percent difference in end-build? Slow building?
Probably 1 to 2 percent honestly
Gambler75
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Originally posted by Ravenwood
Is it really just a 3 percent difference in end-build? Slow building?
I think the general consensus was on 'normal' builds, it's coming out right around 30 SP difference.
On a 3AEQ 1500 value dot, that's exactly 2%.
It's not an overwhelming difference, but it is *more*.
The difference gets exacerbated the heavier you're going on primary. Brew's testing on his hyper fast bltiz CB on Harbor Hawks came out closer to a 60 SP difference (1541 v 1597), so if you're making a stupidly high primary dot, the difference in missing out on those high value early primary trains will widen the gap a bit more.
But by dumping in tons of SP to the primary earlier, you'll also finish it sooner. So you'll end up with more developed 2/3/4 majors in most cases, so really just depends what you're shooting for, how much value there is ~1.5-2% for 'normal' builds, ~3.5-4% for 'extreme' builds.
If there was a choice when you made a dot that it was "cursed" for it's first four seasons, but then it got 2% extra hold block, 2% extra break tackle, or fake, etc. I think most of us would take it, just to have that boost for the seven seasons that follow. Same reasoning applies to not taking the initial five, though honestly - I'd be all in for Bort doing away with the choice and just making it leveled out.
TL;DR - Yeah, it's 2-3% in most cases.
Is it really just a 3 percent difference in end-build? Slow building?
I think the general consensus was on 'normal' builds, it's coming out right around 30 SP difference.
On a 3AEQ 1500 value dot, that's exactly 2%.
It's not an overwhelming difference, but it is *more*.
The difference gets exacerbated the heavier you're going on primary. Brew's testing on his hyper fast bltiz CB on Harbor Hawks came out closer to a 60 SP difference (1541 v 1597), so if you're making a stupidly high primary dot, the difference in missing out on those high value early primary trains will widen the gap a bit more.
But by dumping in tons of SP to the primary earlier, you'll also finish it sooner. So you'll end up with more developed 2/3/4 majors in most cases, so really just depends what you're shooting for, how much value there is ~1.5-2% for 'normal' builds, ~3.5-4% for 'extreme' builds.
If there was a choice when you made a dot that it was "cursed" for it's first four seasons, but then it got 2% extra hold block, 2% extra break tackle, or fake, etc. I think most of us would take it, just to have that boost for the seven seasons that follow. Same reasoning applies to not taking the initial five, though honestly - I'd be all in for Bort doing away with the choice and just making it leveled out.
TL;DR - Yeah, it's 2-3% in most cases.
Ravenwood
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I'd say that's a compelling argument to not slow-build. At least for non-hyper primary dots. A 2 percent advantage seems miniscule if it means not being competitive for the first 1/3 of your dot's career. (I'm assuming decline will start to hit hard at the 12th season?)
SmithsterSmitty
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We have a 'skilled' offensive dot that is going to have 104 and 102 in the first two attributes at the end without slowbuilding. A defensive dot looks like it will be 104/104 at the end. I think everyone should just do the first five boosts and make it a better ladder experience
Gambler75
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That's hardly an extreme dot, it becomes pronounced when you're building one of those 110-112 primary dots, like a freak speedster WR or blitz CB, etc.
That aside, I'm 100% behind Bort tossing the 5 make up boosts at the end, and just make the whole thing a non-issue, and everyone takes the 5 initial boosts if they want to hit 79.
That aside, I'm 100% behind Bort tossing the 5 make up boosts at the end, and just make the whole thing a non-issue, and everyone takes the 5 initial boosts if they want to hit 79.
SmithsterSmitty
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Originally posted by Gambler75
That's hardly an extreme dot, it becomes pronounced when you're building one of those 110-112 primary dots, like a freak speedster WR or blitz CB, etc.
That aside, I'm 100% behind Bort tossing the 5 make up boosts at the end, and just make the whole thing a non-issue, and everyone takes the 5 initial boosts if they want to hit 79.
Sorry wasn't talkking about an extreme dot. Simply that you can build conventionally without the silly games waiting until the end and still get dots with 100+ multi attributes. I also wish it was just set in stone either way.
That's hardly an extreme dot, it becomes pronounced when you're building one of those 110-112 primary dots, like a freak speedster WR or blitz CB, etc.
That aside, I'm 100% behind Bort tossing the 5 make up boosts at the end, and just make the whole thing a non-issue, and everyone takes the 5 initial boosts if they want to hit 79.
Sorry wasn't talkking about an extreme dot. Simply that you can build conventionally without the silly games waiting until the end and still get dots with 100+ multi attributes. I also wish it was just set in stone either way.
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