Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7

Here they are...

Tactics: https://imgur.com/QMuDp4i
1WR - ran 5 times: 3 man, 2 zone (https://imgur.com/DOAIlYw )
2WR - ran 2 times: 0 man, 2 zone (https://imgur.com/WcUWhAl )
3WR - ran 3 times: 2 man, 1 zone (https://imgur.com/Xi9iZiA )
3WR Trips - ran 26 times, 12 man, 14 zone (https://imgur.com/63PS2ey )

Total plays: 36 (17 man, 19 zone)


What about your Prevent tab? Same tactics

Now here's a real head scratcher...

After my Man vs Zone experience I tweaked the Playbook for an afternoon game. Changed Blitz to 100% in Tactics (only change): https://imgur.com/qOv9z7A

Put unwanted plays in Long Pass (I only ran Med Pass) and Inside Run (only ran Outside)

Results
Passing ran as intended. No problems.
Running did NOT go as intended... in a very interesting way.
1WR - ran 6 times: 5 blitz, 1 non-blitz (https://imgur.com/3cheGOL )
3WR Trips - ran 13 times, 11 blitz, 2 non-blitz (https://imgur.com/56HPBqC )

So, the blue priority squares superseded both the 100% Blitz setting AND the Inside vs. Outside Run! What?!?

Originally posted by Cybertron
What about your Prevent tab? Same tactics
Same setting in Prevent tab.

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7
Now here's a real head scratcher...

After my Man vs Zone experience I tweaked the Playbook for an afternoon game. Changed Blitz to 100% in Tactics (only change): https://imgur.com/qOv9z7A

Put unwanted plays in Long Pass (I only ran Med Pass) and Inside Run (only ran Outside)

Results
Passing ran as intended. No problems.
Running did NOT go as intended... in a very interesting way.
1WR - ran 6 times: 5 blitz, 1 non-blitz (https://imgur.com/3cheGOL )
3WR Trips - ran 13 times, 11 blitz, 2 non-blitz (https://imgur.com/56HPBqC )

So, the blue priority squares superseded both the 100% Blitz setting AND the Inside vs. Outside Run! What?!?

Yeah...I have definitely seen some weird play calls, especially at the end of the half/game.

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7

Here they are...

Tactics: https://imgur.com/QMuDp4i
1WR - ran 5 times: 3 man, 2 zone (https://imgur.com/DOAIlYw )
2WR - ran 2 times: 0 man, 2 zone (https://imgur.com/WcUWhAl )
3WR - ran 3 times: 2 man, 1 zone (https://imgur.com/Xi9iZiA )
3WR Trips - ran 26 times, 12 man, 14 zone (https://imgur.com/63PS2ey )

Total plays: 36 (17 man, 19 zone)

EDIT: I just noticed the 3WR is a non-Blitz, Man play (where all the others are Blitz, Man plays). But, zone still fired, roughly, half the time.




You're mixing and matching things up incorrectly.

Let's start with your Tactics.

You have Pass Medium and Outside Run selected either as a probability mix or 100/0 or 0/100.

You have Zone at 0.

You have Blitz at 50.

Here's the problem:

Where are the Pass Medium plays for 1WR?
Where are the Pass Medium plays for 2WR?
Where are the Outside Rushing plays for 3WR?
Where are the Pass Medium plays for 3WR TRIPS?

You're running a Defensive system that is supposed to have Pass Medium and Outside Rushing plays IN EACH FORMATION.

Also, since you're utilizing the Blitz tag, you should (but don't have to) use non-blitz Pass Medium & Outside Rushing plays as well as Blitz versions of Pass Medium & Outside Rushing plays.

Effectively, its seems you want to run ONLY one play against a formation. That's fine. The simple way to do that is to tag all of them Pass Medium and then use 100% Pass Medium in your Tactics. You won't even need to use the Blitz filter.

In essence, this is user error. Sorry.

Here's the flowchart of how you should think:

Apply the Defensive Tactics Matrix against the plays you have listed in each formation for each situation.

You're creating NULL values which the system can only resolve using the blue dots instead of creating a logical flow for each formation.

Example:

3WR

The Defensive Matrix says that in a 3rd and Very Short/Short situation, you are going to use an Outside Rushing tagged Defensive play.

But you don't have anything listed with that tag. So what can the system do? You created a NULL value with the first filter. It never got to Zone. It never got to Blitz.

Originally posted by Xars


The Defensive Matrix says that in a 3rd and Very Short/Short situation, you are going to use an Outside Rushing tagged Defensive play.

But you don't have anything listed with that tag. So what can the system do? You created a NULL value with the first filter. It never got to Zone. It never got to Blitz.



Are you sure this is how it works? I thought it would put all the plays in the bucket and then move on to zone/blitz before using the blue dots.

Originally posted by Xars
Effectively, its seems you want to run ONLY one play against a formation. That's fine. The simple way to do that is to tag all of them Pass Medium and then use 100% Pass Medium in your Tactics. You won't even need to use the Blitz filter.
I see what you're saying. If there are formations against which I want only one play to run I should set it as "Med Pass/Run" and set the second, unwanted play as, for instance, Long Pass. That way it won't give a NULL value even if I have both the Med Pass and Outside Run fields populated in Tactics?

I thought, if I don't have a Med Pass in the Playbook it would take whatever play is logical based on Tactics (i.e 100% Blitz or 0% Zone).

So, what if I have a Med Pass play but Tactics is looking for a Long Pass? Would it again give a NULL value or would it automatically select the Med Pass because it's a pass play?

Second, if I have a Med Pass/Run play and an Inside Run play in the playbook. If Tactics is looking for an Inside Run play would both plays be available to use or will it only take the Inside Run play?

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7

Second, if I have a Med Pass/Run play and an Inside Run play in the playbook. If Tactics is looking for an Inside Run play would both plays be available to use or will it only take the Inside Run play?


It would select the Inside Run play.

Originally posted by Cybertron
Are you sure this is how it works? I thought it would put all the plays in the bucket and then move on to zone/blitz before using the blue dots.

For his Defensive Matrix, yes.

Blue dots are last. Only if you have two (or more) plays remaining, do they factor in.

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7

I see what you're saying. If there are formations against which I want only one play to run I should set it as "Med Pass/Run" and set the second, unwanted play as, for instance, Long Pass. That way it won't give a NULL value even if I have both the Med Pass and Outside Run fields populated in Tactics?



Correct. It will always select the Medium play and never the Long play. And because you can change tags, any play can be the Medium play you want to run - as long as the tag is Medium.

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7

I thought, if I don't have a Med Pass in the Playbook it would take whatever play is logical based on Tactics (i.e 100% Blitz or 0% Zone).



It tried to. But your "logic" tree was different than the system's so it wasn't what you expected.

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7


So, what if I have a Med Pass play but Tactics is looking for a Long Pass? Would it again give a NULL value or would it automatically select the Med Pass because it's a pass play?




If Tactics is looking for a Long play and you have none, you enter the NULL value state. This is where things get a little complicated in a new way.

You have Pass plays.
You have Pass/Run plays.
You have Inside Run plays.
You have Outside Run plays.

So if you want Long Pass, then it will keep the Pass plays and the Pass/Run plays but Inside and Outside Run get discarded.

It should than try and filter by Zone and then by Blitz, but it might just default to the blue dots because the logic tree is now broken. I can't exactly remember.

Originally posted by Ace of Spades 7


Second, if I have a Med Pass/Run play and an Inside Run play in the playbook. If Tactics is looking for an Inside Run play would both plays be available to use or will it only take the Inside Run play?


In this scenario, Cybertron is correct in that it will call the Inside Run play.

If you don't have an Inside Run play, but have a Pass play and Pass/Run play, then it will discard the Pass play and select the Pass/Run play because it's now the only "Run" play. I don't believe it will ever call an Outside Run play because that's a specific tag, but it will call a Pass/Run play because that tag is more generic (think higher level) than Inside/Outside Run which are specific Run plays.

I know all of this can seem confusing. The game logic is actually very sound but deciphering it isn't as intuitive as it seems.

Rob and I ran all kinds of scrims simply to test these settings and figure all this out.

Suggestion:

I'd build a Defensive Tactics Matrix using all of the settings. I'd put Zone at 0% if I was running Man and 100% if I was Zone, but you can make it something different if you want to run a hybrid.

Then I'd use a variety of weightings in the first 5 slots.

I'd have a Pass Short Man & Zone with Regular plays and Blitzes for each formation.
And then I'd replicate that for the other 4 major settings.

On 3rd and Short, you probably not using Outside Run or Pass Long, so you'd use the other 3.
On 3rd and Long, you're probably not using Inside Run, etc.

I'd then build a base D for every formation at each of the 5 major tags and add in blitzes.

Then test it. Run scrims. Look at each situation and try to figure out which play the Matrix should have called.

3rd and Short against 1WR?

2nd and 8 against 3WR TRIPS?

Etc.

Eventually you'll get the feel of it.

It's critically important to master this to compete against the agents at the top of the Ladder.

Be methodical and work within the game logic, rather than rail against it.

Originally posted by Xars
Be methodical and work within the game logic, rather than rail against it.
I didn't realize I was working against game logic but now this makes more sense.

Thank you for your help and in-depth explanations!