Warrior General Games

And another handoff, but different play. HB moves at tick 9 and handoff at tick 17. 8 ticks between when the HB moves and the QB hands the ball off.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1298356

Originally posted by Kvothe27
GE... are you trolling? Lmao... There is no handoff on this play, the QB botches it.

Well the ball would have been handed off if he didn't fumble it. You can still see the ticks even with the fumble.

I didn’t know about the star. I was just eyeballing it...lol

Originally posted by Cybertron
And another handoff, but different play. HB moves at tick 9 and handoff at tick 17. 8 ticks between when the HB moves and the QB hands the ball off.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1298356

The handoff occurs at 16... and we just talked about the star!

Despite your questionable scientific methods, there is still some merit to what you're saying. In all 3 of the examples you linked, assuming the QB fumbles the moment the handoff occurs, there is a consistent 7 tick duration between the snap and the handoff.

Still, you'll need far better examples than that to convince me of any pattern, because:

1. The 10 plays I linked conflict with your theory, and they are all examples of the same play
2. Your 3 examples are of 2 different plays and one is a botched handoff, and having to make assumptions corrupts the reliability of the data

It's not hard to find good data. Just go to the play analyzer in GLB2Scout, look up a particular play, and study the different instances. Or do a team scout if you want the players to be consistent and just look at the different times they've run that play.

Originally posted by Kvothe27
You're a bit off - he gets the handoff at tick 20. Look at when the star disappears from under the QB and appears under the HB instead.

Actually he gets the handoff at tick 21. Look again. At tick 20, QB still has the star. Oh...but tick 20.5 HB does have the ball... But there are no half ticks!

Yeah, I need to do some more investigation. I still think snap reaction of HB and QB movement are tied.

Originally posted by Cybertron
Actually he gets the handoff at tick 21. Look again. At tick 20, QB still has the star.

...no, it's very clearly at 20.

You're referring to this play, right?

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789222/1299555?player_id=348603

There's a world where some visual error is interfering and we are both seeing it right, but on my screen it is without question occurring at 20.

Originally posted by Kvothe27

Despite your questionable scientific methods, there is still some merit to what you're saying. In all 3 of the examples you linked, assuming the QB fumbles the moment the handoff occurs, there is a consistent 7 tick duration between the snap and the handoff.


Fine...Bottom line is the handoff seems to always be 7 or 8 ticks after the HB moves. The real question is, does snap reaction effect when the HB moves?

Same play, game, QB and HB

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789572/1350075
Move: 9
Handoff: 16
Diff: 7

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789572/1349932
Move: 10
Handoff: 17
Diff: 7

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789572/1350342
Move: 9
Handoff: 16
Diff: 7

Why is there a difference in when the HB moves if all handoffs are scripted?

Originally posted by Cybertron
Same play, game, QB and HB

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789572/1350075
Move: 9
Handoff: 16
Diff: 7

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789572/1349932
Move: 10
Handoff: 17
Diff: 7

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/789572/1350342
Move: 9
Handoff: 16
Diff: 7

Why is there a difference in when the HB moves if all handoffs are scripted?

throw 10 points into reaction (hardly any points) and see if it changes a tick

Same play as yours -

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782111/877963
Move: 7
Handoff: 15
Diff: 8

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/783931/133292
Move: 10
Handoff: 17
Diff: 7

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/783301/1121808
Move: 8
Handoff: 16
Diff: 8

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/782376/1136432
Move: 9
Handoff: 16
Diff: 7

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/788666/1215314
Move: 8
Handoff: 16
Diff: 8

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/785157/439720
Move: 7
Handoff: 15
Diff: 8

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/787505/930189
Move: 8
Handoff: 16
Diff: 8

It seems that the snap reaction does impact the handoff, though I don't know why sometimes it's 7 and sometimes it's 8. You might say it's because different running backs in these examples have different speeds, but the earlier examples I posted of Maine Rampage (all with the same HB) also had a 1 tick variance in the time between the snap and the handoff - sometimes 6, sometimes 7. Perhaps acceleration is not a flat value but rather a dice roll, and thus sometimes the HB accelerates at different rates. This would also explain why the Maine examples have faster handoff times of 6/7 than the other examples with 7/8, since the Rampage HB is faster. Dunno.

That being said, I do think snap reaction is detrimental to runs even if it does speed up the handoff. Generally speaking you want the handoff to occur as late as possible so that the second level defenders, particularly those in zone, have longer to drop into their coverage before they realize it's a run. This is the primary reason why QB rollouts don't work well against zone, but HB pitches do.

Originally posted by Kvothe27
Same play as yours -



could be something as simple there is a reaction roll every tick, or the reaction roll starts at tick 7 and if they hit the roll it fires the handoff if they dont then they are probably hitting on the next tick. It's probably an insanely low number to hit on whatever their scale is with reaction just being a variable.

could also be leadership mixed with snap reaction of hb

Maybe its the snap reaction of the Center hiking the ball to the QB has a factor?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Maybe its the snap reaction of the Center hiking the ball to the QB has a factor?

The QB gets the ball at 3 ticks in all of the examples, both Vet and Rookie. Maine's C has gold First Strike, so there is definitely a significant difference in snap reaction between the teams, meaning different snap reactions don't seem to affect how quickly the C gets the ball to the QB.

I do think the idea of it being a QB-related thing, rather than the HB, is interesting. Besides leadership, as viper mentioned, maybe it could also be a balance check with the QB.

Alternatively, maybe some handoffs are scripted differently than others. A 4WR Dive may have a different formula than an I Slam, and thus you get some plays with a 6 tick time between snap and handoff and some plays with 7 or 8 ticks. As for why that number sometimes changes within a single play...

Originally posted by vipermaw82
could also be leadership mixed with snap reaction of hb

That's what I always thought.