Warrior General Games

Originally posted by vipermaw82
Which means it’s wrong

I'm the up vote.

Originally posted by Xars
I'm the up vote.

I'm the down vote

Originally posted by Ghanima
I know effect of First Strike is minor but TE is having his own battle vs his coverage player - at some point 1 of those players will lose morale battle and will start to lose badly on every roll. First step is just being a little bit faster. If U want to win coverage battle with just speed U need to be a lot faster. Morale battle is easier and faster to win. Thats why every1 invests into prime time on every receiver.

Out of the diamond formation, the closest defender will be a DL, not the guy covering you. Even when the TE is inline, the closest defender will often be the DE. On top of that, many teams use a S* SS to cover the TE. First Strike won't touch that SS.

Keep in mind that LBs generally aren't that good in coverage, but I agree First Step isn't that helpful on a TE. It's too inconsistent. However, I'm also of the opinion First Strike isn't that helpful either. I think people overestimate how many times the morale debuff will actually hit.

I think there are better SA options for TE, especially if you care about run blocking.

I think to make First Strike work well you need to prioritize snap reaction to a point where it hurts the rest of your build. That's unless you don't care about being balanced. So a pass rushing DE that doesn't care about run defense could make good use of First Strike. A 100% pass blocking OL could also make good use of First Strike.

WRs can also get away with it because CBs tend not to invest in snap reaction, and they are consistently near CBs.

I prefer having 2 FB for diamond and got non blocking TE for i formation. It is just better. It is like dedicated run formation with pure blockers only and U cant scheme against it ^^

I tried LB covering TE and it was huge win like 15 seasons ago. 6 rings on 1 run... cover 2 m2m scheme with covering OLBs. Star SS is logical choice but it is expensive. I prefer to avoid it.

I am currently adding first strike on Lions star wr and te ^^ we will see what will happen.

Originally posted by darkwingaa
Out of the diamond formation, the closest defender will be a DL, not the guy covering you. Even when the TE is inline, the closest defender will often be the DE. On top of that, many teams use a S* SS to cover the TE. First Strike won't touch that SS.

Keep in mind that LBs generally aren't that good in coverage, but I agree First Step isn't that helpful on a TE. It's too inconsistent. However, I'm also of the opinion First Strike isn't that helpful either. I think people overestimate how many times the morale debuff will actually hit.

I think there are better SA options for TE, especially if you care about run blocking.

I think to make First Strike work well you need to prioritize snap reaction to a point where it hurts the rest of your build. That's unless you don't care about being balanced. So a pass rushing DE that doesn't care about run defense could make good use of First Strike. A 100% pass blocking OL could also make good use of First Strike.

WRs can also get away with it because CBs tend not to invest in snap reaction, and they are consistently near CBs.

This is all generally correct. There are exceptions, of course.

My S* TE naturally has a 100 Snap cap, so adding it to him was a no brainer. Yes, it won't land on the S* SS covering him downfield, but that's not what I want it for. My TE already has an almost 60+% catch rate. I'll take the Morale hits on the LDE so that my ROT can gain an edge. Virtually no one is going to build a 100 Snap player so I it'll land 100% of the time.

I run a lot of pass, first strike is pretty good especially when you have leverage and/or resolute. Pass blocking interactions are longer, and while it can be useful in the run game, it’s much more efficient at protecting the QB (which can be hard). I use high snap awareness on all linemen. It’s usefulness really depends on the direction of your team.

Also it’s extremely good on linemen, whoever said meh must not be using stars with 80 plus snap reaction and decent physicals. The animation at gold is ridiculous, they move like Flash. Especially defensive linemen.

Originally posted by Ghanima
I prefer having 2 FB for diamond and got non blocking TE for i formation. It is just better. It is like dedicated run formation with pure blockers only and U cant scheme against it ^^

I tried LB covering TE and it was huge win like 15 seasons ago. 6 rings on 1 run... cover 2 m2m scheme with covering OLBs. Star SS is logical choice but it is expensive. I prefer to avoid it.

I am currently adding first strike on Lions star wr and te ^^ we will see what will happen.



I might've overgeneralized LBs. Coverage LBs can be effective if they're built to do so. Just most people don't build LBs for coverage and the DC makes do with whatever they have. That's a big reason why S* TEs are so effective and so ubiquitous.

My bigger point is that it's common to see a S* SS defend the S* TE, which lowers the impact of First Strike.

But feel free to give it a shot. It's your team after all. Do what you think is best.

^^ I ll be glad to present it ^^ we r in the same division so the better idea will win apes are a quality team !

Originally posted by darkwingaa

I think to make First Strike work well you need to prioritize snap reaction to a point where it hurts the rest of your build. That's unless you don't care about being balanced. So a pass rushing DE that doesn't care about run defense could make good use of First Strike. A 100% pass blocking OL could also make good use of First Strike.

I disagree. High snap reaction benefits hybrid builds as well. Plus snap reaction is cheap.

Originally posted by Xars
Yes, it won't land on the S* SS covering him downfield, but that's not what I want it for. My TE already has an almost 60+% catch rate. I'll take the Morale hits on the LDE so that my ROT can gain an edge. Virtually no one is going to build a 100 Snap player so I it'll land 100% of the time.



This is my thinking as well. I am building my offense around First Strike and demoralizing the defense in general because it will hit some players on defense every snap.

Originally posted by Cybertron
I disagree. High snap reaction benefits hybrid builds as well. Plus snap reaction is cheap.

I think it depends on what you mean by high. Most DL have between 40 and 60 snap reaction.

To get an edge on them with First Strike you need to have something like 70 or 80 snap reaction. A non super star won't be able to get there without sacrificing something.

Superstars are different. Superstars are superstars for a reason. Superstars can be made to abuse non superstars in a variety of ways. Can a Superstar DL use First Strike effectively? Yes. But I would argue Shed Block, Spin Cycle, and Tunnel Vision are all better, and if you want to tackle a power back you better have one of Brick Wall, Monster Hit, or Death Grip.

But even in Xars case, to get to 100 snap reaction you're still sacrificing something. Whether it's run blocking or sprinting that TE is sacrificing something.

Originally posted by Cybertron
This is my thinking as well. I am building my offense around First Strike and demoralizing the defense in general because it will hit some players on defense every snap.

And then comes the First Strike nerf...

Originally posted by atlbruce
And then comes the First Strike nerf...

Bring it on. You can’t stop the 80s. We always have something up our sleeves

Originally posted by darkwingaa

But even in Xars case, to get to 100 snap reaction you're still sacrificing something. Whether it's run blocking or sprinting that TE is sacrificing something.

There's always an opportunity cost.

But you don't know until you test. At this point, I think the Morale hit might even be broken. I can't find any evidence it's even happening. That's why I need it on a 100 Snap player.

So there's that.