Warrior General Games

Originally posted by ThePh33P
but why would i want to pay money if i'm going to be fighting above my weight class for 50% of a season. thats unfortunate too

So you agree there's basically no solution.

Originally posted by Corndog
So you agree there's basically no solution.

I guess if you want to look at it in as "OP CPU Teams" vs "Current Up/Down Tiering". Then sure, no solution available


I Appreciate your comments in this thread

Originally posted by ThePh33P
I guess if you want to look at it in as "OP CPU Teams" vs "Current Up/Down Tiering". Then sure, no solution available.

I'm open to good alternatives.

The game basically exists as it does in a minefield of user feedback from over more than a decade of doing this.

What if lower tier teams playing up a tier got some sort of boost?

Originally posted by Rob.
What if lower tier teams playing up a tier got some sort of boost?

that could work...maybe like a 1.15x multiplier to the non-physical skills effected and a flat bonus to heart(underdog story after all)

It is funny to me that this bothers people so much. Sure you get curb stomped when you are in lower tiers but then you repay the favor when you get to the higher tiers.

I don't really see how just adding more CPU teams makes the game more fun just because some people can't stand to lose some games here and there.

I'd be in favor of removing a tier altogether if it meant less games against CPU opponents.

Originally posted by Bretto007
It is funny to me that this bothers people so much. Sure you get curb stomped when you are in lower tiers but then you repay the favor when you get to the higher tiers.

I don't really see how just adding more CPU teams makes the game more fun just because some people can't stand to lose some games here and there.

I'd be in favor of removing a tier altogether if it meant less games against CPU opponents.

This is not always what's happening and further why would you want to return the favor? I'll make a chart showcasing what the ladder system is currently doing so you can see it's not the smooth up tiered top end team playing the bottom of the next tier.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
This is not always what's happening and further why would you want to return the favor? I'll make a chart showcasing what the ladder system is currently doing so you can see it's not the smooth up tiered top end team playing the bottom of the next tier.



Back in the day when we didn’t play out of tier ladder games I played the dharan empire like 12 time because we were two of the top teams. People hated this so they opened up the ladders

If it were limited to the top/bottom 3-4 teams in each tier it’d be okay probably, especially if it only activated 3-4 games into the season in order to give ELO a bit of time to try and work out who’s who.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
This is not always what's happening and further why would you want to return the favor? I'll make a chart showcasing what the ladder system is currently doing so you can see it's not the smooth up tiered top end team playing the bottom of the next tier.



I never said it was. My point is why care? Are people that distressed about losing a couple games per season to a team in another tier? They'd rather plow through yet another CPU matchup? Are people that sensitive on here? There are bigger problems to this game rather than some tier matchups you don't like. There are so few teams in the tiers right now you either have to occasionally play up or down to find new opponents, play the teams in your own division over and over and over and over again, or line up more CPU teams (worst option in my opinion).

JMAN 24 teams
=====
BOSTON SAMURAI 10 rank
no tier issues
2 PC
1 CPU

LORLEA 13 rank
1 UP Tier (L 0-52)
2 PC
1 CPU

FLORIDA GATORS 9 rank
no tier issues
3 PC

FLORIDA PANTHERS 12 rank
3 UP Tiers (L 0-56)(L 10-62)(undecided)
3 PC

GreenBriar 14 rank
no tier issues
2 PC
1 CPU

Matty's Rank 6
2 UP Tiers (L 0-44)(Undecided)
3 PC

Deadman Rank 3
1 Up Tier (Undecided)
1 PC
2 CPU

Gridiron Rank 2
2 UP Tier (L 10-58)(Undecided)
3 PC

AA Rank 8
1 Up Tier (L 14-28)
3 PC

Wolverines Rank 4
3 UP Tier (W 21-20)(W 40-30)(Undecided)
3 PC

Daltonville Rank 5
2 Up Tier (L 10-38)(L 24 34)
3 PC

Jarvis Rank 11
2 Up Tier (L 13-34)(L 27-66)
3 PC

Bow Street Rank 1
2 Up Tier (L 7-35)(Undecided)
3 PC

KC Rank 7
2 Up Tier (L 7-28)(Undecided)
3 PC

PRO Tier 12 Teams

Flint Rank 3
2 Down Tier (W 38-10)(Undecided)
3PC (1 interleague)

Dallas Cowboys Rank 5
3 Down Tier (W 44-10)(W 34-13)
3 PC

Marseille Rank 8
1 Down Tier (W 34-24)
3 PC (2 interleague)

Kentucky Rank 1
1 Down Tier (W 35-7)
3 PC (2 Interleague)

Sooners Rank 6
2 Down Tier (W 52-0)(L 30-40)
3 PC (1 Interleague)

Tigers Rank 7
2 Down Tier (W 28-7)(Undecided)
3 PC (1 Inter league)

Cobras Rank 2
3 Down Tier (W 66-27)(W 28-14)(Undecided)
3 PC

Dallas Mavericks Rank 4
3 Down Tier (W 58-10)(W 56-0)(Undecided)
3 PC

Ottawa Rank 9
3 Down Tier (L 20-21)(W 62-10)(Undecided)
3 PC

Couple of things we can gleam from this.

Currently Pro tier is matching down to Journeyman Tier but not up to vet tier which is an improvement. more than 50% of all Journeyman ladder games are at a disadvantage
simply because they are journeyman tier currently. journeyman suffered 12 defeats and 2 victories(7 games undecided) in these games for a score differential of 183-585.
3 times as much scoring for the higher tier team which makes sense.

Honestly after looking at who is matching up with who and the nature of the pairings themselves and the fact the ladder has been very distorted trying to accommodate the lower player base. There's no way my solution of just adding another CPU league to play against will work. Its not designed for it and would likely require an extensive rewrite of the ladder system pairings to even function properly. Currently and this may not be the case if we fall below 13 teams in the vet division. Journeyman plays up tier most of the time for ladder and Pro plays down tier almost all the time for ladder. i cant stress this part enough. your ladder rank is not the only part of the pairing system that matters when determining your matchup for the purposes of up/down tier. poor Florida Panthers have been getting brutalized were as the Cobras in pro have had a relatively easy ladder.

Basically if your a Journeyman team your boned this season sorry. If your a pro team you get an easy season this time.(it should be noted that i believe the current pro tier was the tier being double up tiered a couple seasons ago so hey i think you earned a break lol)

In all of this I've concluded these ladder games are as poorly balanced as any CPU game in the CPUs current state. With a low POTENTIAL of good close games. They are rare and i wish these games were more common. However without a pile of work this is not an easy fix. You cant just add a cpu league and expect the sim to be able to process more balanced games my suggestion will simply not work because its not currently designed to at I'm assuming a base level.

So were kinda in a rough spot for this balance. Of the suggestions I have seen so far robs can be implemented as a "feature" in a relatively quick amount of time and provide some much needed balance to these unbalanced games. Best guess would be a flat +35 Heart and flat +10% to the stats on the player.

Originally posted by Bretto007
I never said it was. My point is why care? Are people that distressed about losing a couple games per season to a team in another tier? They'd rather plow through yet another CPU matchup? Are people that sensitive on here? There are bigger problems to this game rather than some tier matchups you don't like. There are so few teams in the tiers right now you either have to occasionally play up or down to find new opponents, play the teams in your own division over and over and over and over again, or line up more CPU teams (worst option in my opinion).



It's not a "couple games" at a disadvantage/advantage its around 50% of the games played in journeyman and pro. Its unbalanced and its unfun.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
It's not a "couple games" at a disadvantage/advantage its around 50% of the games played in journeyman and pro. Its unbalanced and its unfun.

A mid tier team being at a disadvantage in half their games seems like a pretty accurate system.

I think the fundamental divide here, is that you believe the top ranked team in a middle tier deserves an undefeated season. I don't agree with that, and the ladder system was never designed or intended to be that way, it's a global ranking, not a tier ranking.

Originally posted by Corndog
I think the fundamental divide here, is that you believe the top ranked team in a middle tier deserves an undefeated season. I don't agree with that, and the ladder system was never designed or intended to be that way, it's a global ranking, not a tier ranking.

I think you are strawmanning a bit here, it's not just the top team from a tier who has to face people uptier from them. Not at all.

But all the things you say about the top team having to face the same teams over and over - already happens in vet. It's not like there is another tier for them to play up against. It's not like ladder is horribly broken or unfun there - in fact it's horribly broken and unfun in only the tiers without protection.

I can get that you have a strong opinion of this, but at least try to find a solution that might help us all feel a little bit better - such as limiting it to the top and bottom 4 human teams from each tier that group up to form a kind of 'crossover ladder' group themselves and they grab a random opponent from that group. leaving the middling teams from both tiers to all face off and try to climb up to be in that group.