Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Sov.
which is why AA who ran the same 5-6 pass plays won vet ladder 4 seasons in a row (easily) and scored an average of 50pts a game using those same 5 plays with little to no downside whatsoever?

if there was any form of diversity "bonus" shouldn't there also by the same logic be a diversity "penalty" for teams that use those same money plays over and over? maybe the defense should get together in a little pixel huddle and say, "ok weve seen 4wr hb pressure fire 25 times this game so lets maybe be ready for that play and stop giving up 40yd completions" ??

I may be wrong but I thought there was a penalty to running the same play over and over.......its been awhile since it was talked about but I’m pretty sure there is.....maybe I’m wrong and that was glb1. I think AA just had a really good team with good coordination. When we were in vet every time we played them it was close and we weren’t the best team but were built more to defend passing......most teams at that time were built more focused on power rushing. I think that builds and coordination is why they did so well. This time around we have a better team, but I’d be willing to bet if we played them in vet next season, the game wouldn’t be as close as the last time around. We will do better against everyone else, but AA would probably kill us.....there are more balanced teams and we built our team to defend that this time.

Originally posted by rackhound
AA didnt seem to take a back seat and they were an almost %100 pass team. Haven't seen any mostly rush teams in the last few seasons dominate like they did. Even Popeyes spinach who had another GLB power owner didnt have that kind of success. After tweaking my O and adding some diversity this weekend my teams offense seems to have picked it up, but I see teams spam plays and kick ass with a handful of plays that everyone knows works. AA success Probably had to do with builds and good coordinators making a difference, but had to point that out I’m not complaining just wanted to give you some shit cus I can

Well I mean, unstoppable is unstoppable. You don't need a bonus if people can't stop what you're doing. A lot changed since the play diversity bonus was added.

I can't really say whether they would have had as much success with the same group of guys running a more balanced team or not. They're an outlier either way.

Originally posted by rackhound
AA didnt seem to take a back seat and they were an almost %100 pass team. Haven't seen any mostly rush teams in the last few seasons dominate like they did. Even Popeyes spinach who had another GLB power owner didnt have that kind of success. After tweaking my O and adding some diversity this weekend my teams offense seems to have picked it up, but I see teams spam plays and kick ass with a handful of plays that everyone knows works. AA success Probably had to do with builds and good coordinators making a difference, but had to point that out I’m not complaining just wanted to give you some shit cus I can

Popeye actually had pretty great success up until the change to balance. But I would say we ran a number of more plays than AA.

Originally posted by Corndog
I can't really say whether they would have had as much success with the same group of guys running a more balanced team or not. They're an outlier either way.

the owner of AA was Rob, myself and Rob have run several teams together and i held a coaching spot on AA so i was able to see all of the player builds and play selection. most of the builds, especially the WRs, are very near identical to what we use on BB, so I do not believe it was player builds or coaching as much as finding a specific niche/flaw in the game (deep passing, multiple WR sets) and building a team centered on that one area.

to Rob's credit, he did start up the all-pass AA team in the era of broken/exploited counter runs so rather than go with the easier meta team build with a s* HB for counter runs he went another way. in the process he (in my opinion) found another flaw in the games mechanics in the inability for a defense to shut down high percentage deep passing plays 3 downs in a row without completing one for a first down.

Originally posted by Corndog
Well I mean, unstoppable is unstoppable. You don't need a bonus if people can't stop what you're doing. A lot changed since the play diversity bonus was added.


https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/525491
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/514691
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/514625

3 games vs AA, all using the best possible defensive play selection against the same few offensive plays they use. it is worth noting this season was complete garbage due to the last minute changes and no ability to re-spec which lead to a setback to the running game, significant boost to deep passing, and a huge hit to pass coverage (however our team was ranked #3 in pass defense last season during the time of these games)

notice across 3 games AA had an average of 700 yards per game, an average of 50 pts per game scored on offense, and an average of a 60% completion ratio on approximately 80-90 pass attempts per game, and only suffered 3 turnovers total for an average of 1 per game. (though our defense is built for turnovers)

461 : DI Chalice 41 48.8 61.0 9.6|15.7
141 : SB TE Drive 29 62.1 65.5 10.0|15.2
160 : SG TE Drive 22 63.6 63.6 9.3|14.6
487 : SB TRIP TE Flag 20 40.0 80.0 7.6|9.5
313 : SB TRIP WR Posts 18 33.3 50.0 6.4|12.9
493 : WK Posts Go 29 48.3 58.6 8.8|14.9
507 : WK HB Pressure 28 39.3 57.1 7.8|13.7

that is 7 plays used 187 times over 3 games, all with a 50% or greater completion rate, for an average of 10YPC and "big play" percentage of 50+.

can you please review and point to where the "diversity" is located in that breakdown? or explain why any of those plays (against top defensive playcalls for those specific offensive plays) continued to be as or more successful as the game went on instead of a penalty for those same plays firing over and over? or maybe add your thoughts on if a top tier team should spend 1hr+ gameplanning a defensive gameplan focused on shutting down exactly the same 7 plays they know are coming for a 100% fact and still being unable (over the course of 3 games in one season) to hold them under 50 pts or 700 yds? should your game allow teams to be "unstoppable" by using the same exact plays every single game throughout an entire season with little to no penalty?

Originally posted by Sov.
can you please review and point to where the "diversity" is located in that breakdown?


Well that's easy to answer, I'm pretty sure I already did. It's not located in that breakdown, obviously. It also proves pretty much nothing.

The fact that LeBron wasn't playing in the super bowl doesn't mean he isn't a professional athlete.

Originally posted by Corndog
Well that's easy to answer, I'm pretty sure I already did. It's not located in that breakdown, obviously. It also proves pretty much nothing.

The fact that LeBron wasn't playing in the super bowl doesn't mean he isn't a professional athlete.

Lol...wat??? O_o

Originally posted by Corndog
Well that's easy to answer, I'm pretty sure I already did. It's not located in that breakdown, obviously. It also proves pretty much nothing.

The fact that LeBron wasn't playing in the super bowl doesn't mean he isn't a professional athlete.

This post proves why your games dead, GG

LeBron is not affiliated with GLB.

Originally posted by Corndog
LeBron is not affiliated with GLB.

Lol...wat??? O_o

Originally posted by Corndog
Well that's easy to answer, I'm pretty sure I already did. It's not located in that breakdown, obviously. It also proves pretty much nothing.

The fact that LeBron wasn't playing in the super bowl doesn't mean he isn't a professional athlete.

Originally posted by Corndog
LeBron is not affiliated with GLB.

This is the response? Depressing.

Thought an analogy might help. Didn't think repeating the same thing over would help anything. I guess I can say it again?

A bonus for running diverse plays doesn't have much impact on a team that doesn't run diverse plays. Using that as some kind of example of how the bonus doesn't exist is pretty perplexing.

I "think" what Corndog is saying is that AA didn't get a bonus since their playcalling wasn't that diverse, so it wouldn't tell you much about the impact "diversity bonus" has. You would have to look at a team that runs a large playbook to really see its impact.

In terms of a diversity penalty...I think that would likely just cause more problems for running teams. Good luck utilizing Trip runs heavily if there's a penalty, or those off tackle inside runs consistently in short yardage plays. A passing team can go far deeper in the playbook.

Originally posted by Corndog
What I DO know is that as soon as it was added, balanced teams immediately started taking the show. Pure run and pure pass teams took a back seat literally a season after it was added, despite the bellowing about it "doing nothing".

Originally posted by Sov.

461 : DI Chalice 41 48.8 61.0 9.6|15.7
141 : SB TE Drive 29 62.1 65.5 10.0|15.2
160 : SG TE Drive 22 63.6 63.6 9.3|14.6
487 : SB TRIP TE Flag 20 40.0 80.0 7.6|9.5
313 : SB TRIP WR Posts 18 33.3 50.0 6.4|12.9
493 : WK Posts Go 29 48.3 58.6 8.8|14.9
507 : WK HB Pressure 28 39.3 57.1 7.8|13.7

that is 7 plays used 187 times over 3 games, all with a 50% or greater completion rate, for an average of 10YPC and "big play" percentage of 50%.

Originally posted by Corndog
Well I mean, unstoppable is unstoppable. You don't need a bonus if people can't stop what you're doing.

Originally posted by Sov.
maybe add your thoughts on if a top tier team should spend 1hr+ gameplanning a defensive gameplan focused on shutting down exactly the same 7 plays they know are coming for a 100% fact and still being unable (over the course of 3 games in one season) to hold them under 50 pts or 700 yds? should your game allow teams to be "unstoppable" by using the same exact plays every single game throughout an entire season with little to no penalty?

Originally posted by Corndog
A bonus for running diverse plays doesn't have much impact on a team that doesn't run diverse plays.

so, basically instead of logging in each day and crafting custom game plans and being generally active and immersed in the game, the answer from the admin is that we should realize that certain teams who exploit the flaws in the game of that current meta should be deemed "unstoppable" (i.e. LeBron James?? lol) and that we should stop "bellowing" about it? i realize how diversity bonus works, i dont need a dumb analogy of a basketball player in a football sim to help me "understand".

the question i want answered is that in the game that you and bort designed, did you envision that it would be acceptable for a team to go entire seasons without changing an offensive gameplan and using the same 7-8 plays every game and averaging 50+ pts per game and close to 1000 yds per game and winning 4 vet ladders in a row with little to no competition? that is a GREAT model for a successful competitive game.

we've discussed its not just builds as many teams use very similar builds, its not just play calling as everyone can run those same plays. its the combination of finding the area to exploit, building the whole team around it, and running the same few high success plays at a very high priority all game every game. throughout the history of the game this has been a problem, teams find a flaw, build a niche team (stunners, air raid, logzilla, virgins, HoF, AA) and exploit the flaw with little to no ability to stop it (GL sweep, TE drive spam, QB outside runs, counter run spam, WR screen passing, 4/5 WR deep passing)

those examples are all facts compiled through many seasons. over time changes needed to be made to address each specific issue and fix/improve each issue individually. my point is that creating a "lack of diversity" penalty system would be the change to address all of those past issues AND the future ones. if a team runs GL sweep for the 3rd/4th/5th time, the defense should be more and more naturally aware and make slight adjustments. or to bo's point, if a team spams "trips runs heavily" there SHOULD be a penalty, the team should have to mix up their play calling to open up the ability to run those same plays as well the 3rd/4th/5th times. how many times do you see the same play ran in the same game in the NFL? i can assure you its not 187 times in 3 games.

im not trying to argue to argue or make a problem. im just pointing out something ive noticed throughout years of playing your game and ive brought up the same idea many times with no success. im tired of hearing the same BS responses bordering on the level of "git gud" remarks from an admin. its a good suggestion and i felt that i provided plenty enough facts to get a direct response instead of a condescending remark.

Yes, the game isn't and never will be perfectly balanced, no matter how many question marks and facepalm smilies are posted.

I thought this thread was about diversity bonus, not a thread where we shift goalposts and just air general grievances after every post.

I'll leave you to it now.