Warrior General Games

Originally posted by MechieeThaKnight
instead of arguing Im still trying to figure out which traits are best for a passing and a little bit of scrambling QB.

Superstar, Dual Threat, Precison Passer

Originally posted by Xars
Egotist gimps your Conditioning too much. It was close to the scrap heap before Natural and now it's there permanently.



That would make sense, if Sprint and Quickness weren't so freaking expensive. But using the cap boosts gets you to where you need to be and conditioning never goes over 1000 skill points per point.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Not really. Brian O'Connor is a non S* Dual, throws for 58.3% (6.1 ypa), rushes for 10.1 ypc. I guarantee he doesn't have close to the same passing skills as Bane does. Just trying to give you a heads up because I see warning signs with Bane

For now, yes. But those low passing skills wont cut it in Vet.

Bane is a pass 1st, run second QB. Skeletor, who does pretty well for a rushing QB on an all rush team, only has 80 sprint. His last 2 years in Vet has averaged over 10 YPC. And that is with the defense knowing he is running. With Bane on a balanced offense including several runs up the middle, his designed outside runs will take advantage of a defense running plays to stop the pass and inside run as well.

Originally posted by bhall43
That would make sense, if Sprint and Quickness weren't so freaking expensive. But using the cap boosts gets you to where you need to be and conditioning never goes over 1000 skill points per point.

The question is how high do you really need to get quickness and sprinting on a dual threat QB? If I needed to get above 80, then I would take egotist. But I want high passing skills on my DT QB.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Not really. Brian O'Connor is a non S* Dual, throws for 58.3% (6.1 ypa), rushes for 10.1 ypc. I guarantee he doesn't have close to the same passing skills as Bane does. Just trying to give you a heads up because I see warning signs with Bane

And what is his conditioning cap?

Originally posted by MechieeThaKnight
instead of arguing Im still trying to figure out which traits are best for a passing and a little bit of scrambling QB.

S*, Dual Threat, Natural

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Absolutely, but...the way to acheive both at the same time is to narrowly focus their skillset. Otherwise you get a player who is neither elite at passing nor rushing. You want the Dual QB to be good/great at both.

Maybe our definition of a dual threat QB differs, but he will not be elite in either...by definition he is good at passing and running, but not great at either. The "narrow" skill set that he needs to be good at is:

high = 75+
medium = 30 - 75

pass tech (high)
pass acc (high)
pass con (high)
pass power (medium)
pocket aware (medium)
pass aware (medium)

sprint (high)
foot (medium)
quick (medium)

Cond (high)
Heart (medium)
Leadership (medium)

You cannot achieve those with Egotist due to the nerf to conditioning. Natural gives a boost to all those skills.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
And what is his conditioning cap?

I just checked Bane's build and he will end with 83 conditioning, and that is with +10 from S* and +35 from cap boosts and 4 in stamina and not using Egotist.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
For now, yes. But those low passing skills wont cut it in Vet.

Bane is a pass 1st, run second QB. Skeletor, who does pretty well for a rushing QB on an all rush team, only has 80 sprint. His last 2 years in Vet has averaged over 10 YPC. And that is with the defense knowing he is running. With Bane on a balanced offense including several runs up the middle, his designed outside runs will take advantage of a defense running plays to stop the pass and inside run as well.
Skeletor can get away with 80 sprint because he's a power running QB on an all-run team. Take away those blocking WRs and his power, and the results would be less efficient.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
And what is his conditioning cap?
74 raw, 89 with normal caps

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Maybe our definition of a dual threat QB differs, but he will not be elite in either...by definition he is good at passing and running, but not great at either. The "narrow" skill set that he needs to be good at is:

high = 75+
medium = 30 - 75

pass tech (high)
pass acc (high)
pass con (high)
pass power (medium)
pocket aware (medium)
pass aware (medium)

sprint (high)
foot (medium)
quick (medium)

Cond (high)
Heart (medium)
Leadership (medium)

You cannot achieve those with Egotist due to the nerf to conditioning. Natural gives a boost to all those skills.
For me, the definition of elite depend on the results a build gives you in the sim, not his skill levels. I find a QB who can throw for 60-65% and rush for 10+ ypc, as being far more efficient than one that Passes for 63-67% and rushes for 5-7 ypc.

Yards per pass and rush are the key when measuring impact. For example...
Bane has 978 rush/pass for 6155.5 yards this season. That's 6.29 yds per down
O'Connor has 1197 rush/pass for 10075 yards this season. That's 8.55 yds per down

Now Denali in Journeyman is passing at a 9.9 ypa rate which is why the Alaskans are so dominant. Vape has Ozron throwing for 7.9 ypa, and Robinson rushing for 10.0 ypc. There's no efficiency benefit to having a Dual QB if he's not putting up 7.5+ yards per touch stats. You're better off just getting a passing QB and dominant HB.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

You're better off just getting a passing QB and dominant HB.



Where's the fun in that?

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Yards per pass and rush are the key when measuring impact. For example...
Bane has 978 rush/pass for 6155.5 yards this season. That's 6.29 yds per down
O'Connor has 1197 rush/pass for 10075 yards this season. That's 8.55 yds per down



You also have to look at play calling and competition. I just threw a scrim at you the other day, used my default tactics and shut down O'Connor.

20/31 for 197 and 1 TD/0 INT (not bad)
20 carries for 0 yards

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/446944

The thing is, nobody is scared of your passing so they can just stop the run and win.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
You also have to look at play calling and competition. I just threw a scrim at you the other day, used my default tactics and shut down O'Connor.

20/31 for 197 and 1 TD/0 INT (not bad)
20 carries for 0 yards

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/446944

The thing is, nobody is scared of your passing so they can just stop the run and win.
Uh, it's very easy to shut down O'Connor if you gameplan for a scrim. But...its a scrim, lol.

You posted Bane's stats from a game against Bloody, they were decent but F&F beat them and O'Connor threw for 2 TDs. In terms of opponents, F&F has beaten 4 journeyman teams this season, mainly due to O'Connor.

Again, it's about efficiency. An elite QB will throw 7.5 ypa. An elite HB will rush for 8+ ypc. This is why Denali at 9.9 ypa is so exceptional. Empire's whole problem this season offensively can be found when looking at their rates. Skeletor isn't getting enough touches, and neither of your HBs are anywhere close to a decent ypc. Ask yourself, what will Bane do at Vet? Perhaps he can get to a 7.0 ypa rate, but will you have the receivers for that? Rushing the ball, he's already under 6 ypc, so I'm guessing he'll end up around Denard Robinson as a rusher. Very solid QB, but would rather see my HB take those rushes at a sub 6 ypc level. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/209420

Thanks @Bodiddley!

You cannot even put Dual Threat and Precision Passer together e.e