Warrior General Games

It really isn't as simple as you put it. Having a 3rd, cheap DT allows a run specialists. So I can have a S* combo, a run specialist and another combo. I run exclusively 5-2 against 2 WR sets. If I play vs a pure running team, I put all 3 DTs in. If it is a balanced team, the combo and run stopper split snaps. If pure pass, the running stopper sits the bench. But there are so many pure running teams in my league, I need that run stopper.

imo DT's look particularly bad when you take a moneyball style look at them. To have 4.5 salaries on the roster....and be getting a couple hurries, 2 rev cake and 2 tackle per game (as an example) from your DT's - no way that is worth it.

ya, ya, ya - "they take up blockers so the LB's can make plays!" -- no. they take up 1 blocker....and just about anyone can do that -- included regular players and tired players.


Guess I'll just jump to 'rebuttal' and look at the 2 close games GE had this season.

vs Enterprise.

GE's 3 DT's combined for: 1 tackle / 4 assist tackles / 1 missed tackle / 4 hurry / 1 TFL / pancaked 5 times / rev cake 1


vs Jarvis:
2 tackles
3 ast
1 hurry
3 pancaked
7 rev cakes

Is that worth 6.7 million (~8% of his total salary cap)? Absolutely not. And - he's using a seasoned DT as one of his DTs on a journeyman team -- so the numbers will only get worse going forward.

Of course - since GE is cheating and is 1.370 million over the cap...he is reducing some of the negatives of his choices. He has 5 players on HIGH contracts...and is cheating the system. That isn't right.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
I run exclusively 5-2 against 2 WR sets.

Go look at some old GA games at Vet and see what happens when you do this. Screen hell.

So while you do that, it doesn't mean you should. You can be very effective against the run using 4-3 sets. Hell with LZ Boys I used 3-4 sets against 2WR and stuffed the run very well. They were effectively a 5-2 when I Run blitzed the OLBs but I wasn't stuck with the mechanics of 5-2 against 2WR all the time.

This is an advice thread. You've got Cuiv, me, DL and now TxSteve all saying that 4.5 DTs of salary cap space is too much.

We can't make you listen, but we are trying to help.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
It really isn't as simple as you put it. Having a 3rd, cheap DT allows a run specialists. So I can have a S* combo, a run specialist and another combo. I run exclusively 5-2 against 2 WR sets. If I play vs a pure running team, I put all 3 DTs in. If it is a balanced team, the combo and run stopper split snaps. If pure pass, the running stopper sits the bench. But there are so many pure running teams in my league, I need that run stopper.

The problem in your thinking isn't that you need the Run Stopper - it's that you don't need the non-S* Combo DT.

Look at my current LZ Boys. You'll see a S* DT Combo and a DT Run Stopper. That's 3.5 DT salaries and really all I need.

You could also make an argument that two regular DTs can just about accomplish what a S* DT and regular DT will. Having a S* DT simply allows a better combo build. What all DTs really need to be able to do is shed an interior block and make a tackle at the LOS on those short inside runs. If they can do that then they are doing their job. Against the pass you are going to get better pressure on QBs with DEs and LBs so as long as the DT is not getting rcaked all is well. Any slight addition that they bring on top of stuffing inside runs is simply icing on the cake so to speak IMO.

Advice:

Don't fall in love with Cheap. DT's are cheap for a reason. They don't do a whole lot.

LBs are expensive, both salary and FLEX. Why? Because that's where the flexibility to perform multiple roles exist.

Thanks everyone... good stuff as always Too bad everyone is spread out so far.. these are beer drinking discussions for sure albeit kinda nerdy, but hell that's okay!
I like the idea of 1 S* DT and one DT combo... it does save space. The key in that scenario is to have the DT with high conditioning. To survive that, what would the minimum be on that? 50-60 as milehigh said with high toughness?

I'm of the thinking that 2 well built normal DTs can do the job. 1 S* means you for sure shouldn't need a 3rd.

For what that's worth

Originally posted by WarHammer2015
Thanks everyone... good stuff as always Too bad everyone is spread out so far.. these are beer drinking discussions for sure albeit kinda nerdy, but hell that's okay!
I like the idea of 1 S* DT and one DT combo... it does save space. The key in that scenario is to have the DT with high conditioning. To survive that, what would the minimum be on that? 50-60 as milehigh said with high toughness?

Use the S* as the combo DT. Build a high(65-70) conditioning(Higher the better) NT build with 65-70 toughness and your set. You can run some 3 man fronts to rest 1 of them. Be harder against pure run teams but I think it will work.

If you do this I would assume you would need a strong run stopping DE(Which you likely should have anyways) in case you ever want to run 5-2

Originally posted by WarHammer2015
Thanks everyone... good stuff as always Too bad everyone is spread out so far.. these are beer drinking discussions for sure albeit kinda nerdy, but hell that's okay!
I like the idea of 1 S* DT and one DT combo... it does save space. The key in that scenario is to have the DT with high conditioning. To survive that, what would the minimum be on that? 50-60 as milehigh said with high toughness?

everyone isn't spread out.

people who have won lots of games are on one side.

people who lose lots of games are on the other.


edit: - sorry - I now realize that you mean spread out too far geographically. I'm going to leave my comment in though...just because I like to point out GE's horrendous record (barely .500 winning percentage) - and Chronicbomb occasionally drops some gold when someone tells him he sucks (barely over .500 as owner) -- in his defense though - the bomb is apparently the best recruiter in the game (6 championships) -- and I can attest to that as well - he was my DC for my team in my first season in GLB2 and he recruited Madden to the squad which led to lots of team wins.

Originally posted by TxSteve
everyone isn't spread out.

people who have won lots of games are on one side.

people who lose lots of games are on the other.

wouldn't really say that, i think it's a huge waste with 4 DE's where one is S*, at least the 3rd DT has a huge impact on ST compared to wage

but you should go either 3 DE's with S* or 4

just like 2 DT's are enough 3 normal DE's are enough too

and lastly i've found S*DE's lacking compared to normal DE's in top games, but S*DT's have been impactfull

I'm not really agreeing with GE though but i don't find 3 DT's to be wastefull if one is S*, 4 DE's with one S* seems like a huge waste with DE's being the second most expensive D position i think

I don't know... I am really liking where my S* DE is going to end up when finished and would love to have another S* DE on the roster in all honesty. All DE sack and hurry numbers drop when playing top teams but they still can make their presence felt.

I'm interested in how well your D is going to work in vet. Haven't succeded myself in convincing Boss to go D heavy on S*

Originally posted by Merik
I'm interested in how well your D is going to work in vet. Haven't succeded myself in convincing Boss to go D heavy on S*



I am more concerned about the offense in vet. Really surprised with how well the offense has run with that offensive roster so far. Hopefully it will be able to keep pace with quality offenses but the magic will most likely fade at some point. We will see. Another S* CB or S* DE could really help out the defense in vet ball I think haha.

I'm interested in your 4 CB against pass teams seems like they don't have a lot of energy from traits, i personally don't feel well having lower then 5 CB

Originally posted by Merik
I'm interested in your 4 CB against pass teams seems like they don't have a lot of energy from traits, i personally don't feel well having lower then 5 CB

Not worried much about it. I think we will be alright. Time will tell though haha.