Warrior General Games

Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by Mornacale



Offense
Guard: Red Guard, Samoa Gangsters (More pancakes per play than anyone else with 100 or more pancakes. Also, he has a freaking touchdown. Seriously.)
Tackle: John Bryans, Samoa Gangsters (The league's highest pancake total, a high number of pancakes/play, all for the league's best offense.)




Two thoughts:

1) You need to recheck that pancake chart. Two Devils top the list.

2) While I personally think that the Gangsters are the class of the league, perhaps in a class by themselves, I also think that there must be some players of merit on other teams. Almost this entire list is populated by Gangsters and, go figure, a Gangster himself posted the list.



Calm down, he posted about those guards before today's game.

As of yesterday's game, he named 8 Gangsters, all of who WERE the best at their positions at that point in time. He did say stuff could change, and there's a good chance it will. He and I have been talking since shortly after the game ended, and he has been mulling over what on the list needed changes after today's game.

As of that posting, there were 11 Non Gangsters and 10 Gangsters. One (Mister Moose) really shouldn't count as two, since Bob would instead count as two if he were named. Rather silly to think League MVP isn't best as his position. But, going off of stats before that game, can you really make a solid case for any of his picks from the Gangsters not being MVP? After tonight, with Tasmania's game, some of your guys have made a case, true. But seriously -- Morn's list was pretty dang fair. Tally's list named 5 Gangsters, and had quite a few Bears on it. Why not get on him for that?

To put it bluntly, this isn't Tee Ball where every team gets someone with an award on it. Some teams simply have dominant players at multiple positions -- how is it fair to not give them an award that they've earned?

Originally posted by General Terms

Two thoughts:

1) You need to recheck that pancake chart. Two Devils top the list.

2) While I personally think that the Gangsters are the class of the league, perhaps in a class by themselves, I also think that there must be some players of merit on other teams. Almost this entire list is populated by Gangsters and, go figure, a Gangster himself posted the list.

1) My votes were originally posted prior to week 15. They have now been edited to reflect the new statistics, including a vote for one of your Devils. Red Guard still has that TD, though.

2) There are many players of merit on other teams. However, in many cases (8 cases as of this writing) I have found them to have less merit than a Gangster. Speaking from the statistics, we simply have the best offense and best defense in the league, and our special teams are also quite good. But hey, if you think a non-Gangster player is the best at a given position, please vote for him or her.

Originally posted by MrMoose


Calm down, he posted about those guards before today's game.


As of that posting, there were 11 Non Gangsters and 10 Gangsters.


Sorry, I didnt intend to seem unglued, the post bolded by accident.

As far as my opinion that the list is heavily favoring Gangsters (leaving the definitely arguable position that this is deservedly so aside) I stand by that. You point out that the list has 10 Samoans out of 21 on it. That is nearly HALF the list. When you have half the list occupied out of no less than 32 candidates at each position available, well that doesnt exactly follow a probability bell curve does it?

At any rate I am not trying to start an argument here, merely discussion. Surely everyone can look at the stat lists for themselves and just pick the top guy at each spot for the best of. But wouldn't it be more interesting if we went beyond that method?

Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by MrMoose



Calm down, he posted about those guards before today's game.


As of that posting, there were 11 Non Gangsters and 10 Gangsters.


Sorry, I didnt intend to seem unglued, the post bolded by accident.

As far as my opinion that the list is heavily favoring Gangsters (leaving the definitely arguable position that this is deservedly so aside) I stand by that. You point out that the list has 10 Samoans out of 21 on it. That is nearly HALF the list. When you have half the list occupied out of no less than 32 candidates at each position available, well that doesnt exactly follow a probability bell curve does it?

At any rate I am not trying to start an argument here, merely discussion. Surely everyone can look at the stat lists for themselves and just pick the top guy at each spot for the best of. But wouldn't it be more interesting if we went beyond that method?

Actually, it has for both Mornacle and I. Though getting too in detail makes it hard. I mean, there's only so far some of the things can be stretched. I mean, best WR, yeah -- I really like McSizzle but I stand by Joel for my choice there. He has more total yards on the year and (now, at least), more touchdowns. O Linemen is really hard when we don't have a category to see how many sacks were allowed on that lineman's watch, so all we really have to go on for them right now is pancakes. CB is a discussion I will NOT get into. as anyone who was around last year may know.

Other positions Gangsters were named at -- I'm sorry, but I really can't argue with Moose or Flesh. Nor can I argue with Bob, since he really was key to the Gangsters' offense this year, though DC Rambo was close. I mean, I've tried as hard as I could to give nods to other players when appropriate. If a Gangster seems to be far and away better, though, I do name them. It's nothing at all personal, nor is it meant to say the other teams in the division suck (good god, they don't).

Originally posted by MrMoose

Other positions Gangsters were named at -- I'm sorry, but I really can't argue with Moose or Flesh. Nor can I argue with Bob, since he really was key to the Gangsters' offense this year, though DC Rambo was close. I mean, I've tried as hard as I could to give nods to other players when appropriate. If a Gangster seems to be far and away better, though, I do name them. It's nothing at all personal, nor is it meant to say the other teams in the division suck (good god, they don't).


Fair enough. But lets say for the sake of argument that the rest of the league, all 31 teams aside from the Gangsters, where copies of the Left Winged Turkey Gobblers. Would you think that the Gangsters awards were legitimate? That is what I was getting at when I said Samoa is really in a class by itself. Giving a Samoan an award, while deserved cuz after all it clearly is the best team and has best virtual athletes ( I know I know Northbrook has a bone to pick with this), is really just too easy.

Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by MrMoose


Other positions Gangsters were named at -- I'm sorry, but I really can't argue with Moose or Flesh. Nor can I argue with Bob, since he really was key to the Gangsters' offense this year, though DC Rambo was close. I mean, I've tried as hard as I could to give nods to other players when appropriate. If a Gangster seems to be far and away better, though, I do name them. It's nothing at all personal, nor is it meant to say the other teams in the division suck (good god, they don't).


Fair enough. But lets say for the sake of argument that the rest of the league, all 31 teams aside from the Gangsters, where copies of the Left Winged Turkey Gobblers. Would you think that the Gangsters awards were legitimate? That is what I was getting at when I said Samoa is really in a class by itself. Giving a Samoan an award, while deserved cuz after all it clearly is the best team and has best virtual athletes ( I know I know Northbrook has a bone to pick with this), is really just too easy.



Honestly, it really is. But on that hand, is it fair to penalize Samoans that have done really well simply because the team was better? Note we only brought in a few new players this season (DC Rambo, Tyease Thompson, Trev Mac, Jeith Kackson, Ryan & Andrew Stiglmeier), none of which were nominated for awards, and none of which were grossly out of line level wise for the team.

And your statement would give us a good reason to not say that our guys are the #1 players in GLB since our league could be argued to have more weaker teams. However, when compared within conference (we all play virtually the same schedule), many of Samoa's players do stand out, much like many Vegas players stood out last year.

I mean, to relate this a bit to the NFL -- Brady and Moss put up absolutely GROSS numbers this past season, and the Patriots were in a class of their own. However, there's no fair way to argue that Brady wasn't the best player in the league or some such.

Originally posted by General Terms
As far as my opinion that the list is heavily favoring Gangsters (leaving the definitely arguable position that this is deservedly so aside) I stand by that. You point out that the list has 10 Samoans out of 21 on it. That is nearly HALF the list. When you have half the list occupied out of no less than 32 candidates at each position available, well that doesnt exactly follow a probability bell curve does it?

At any rate I am not trying to start an argument here, merely discussion. Surely everyone can look at the stat lists for themselves and just pick the top guy at each spot for the best of. But wouldn't it be more interesting if we went beyond that method?
Samoa's 14-1 record also does not fit a bell curve very well. In fact, if we're going to get mathematics involved...

*disappears into a spreadsheet*

Points Scored
Mean: 369.72
Standard Deviation: 232.62
Samoa: 950 = mean + 2.49 standard deviations.
Assuming normal distribution, that puts Samoa's offense in the 99.36th percentile.

Points Allowed
Mean: 369.72
Standard Deviation: 323.29
Samoa: 59 = mean - .93 standard deviations
Assuming normal distribution, that puts Samoa's defense in the 82.38th percentile. (But note that the distribution is not really normal; 0 points allowed would be only the 87.29th percentile.)

Just for fun:
Pancakes
Mean: 476.31
Standard Deviation: 367.48
Samoa: 1159 = mean + 1.86 standard deviations
Blah blah, we're in the 96.86th percentile.

So, just taking a fairly useless straight average of our offensive and defensive standard deviations gives us Samoa's overall strength at 1.71 standard deviations above average, in the 95.64th percentile. And this is actually a conservative estimate of how favorably Samoa compares to the average (in these two particular ways). So...you may want to rework your bell curve argument.


edit: I should add some non-math response as well. I understand what you mean with your Turkey Gobbler example. But where do you draw the line? How does one determine that one player from Samoa deserves the award, but another player can't have one because that would be too many from Samoa?

Oh god, you've unleashed his inner math nerd

We've learned how to keep it under wraps on our boards...

Personally, I don't know about the rest of the MVP voting but HC of the year must be General Terms (Tasmania)...last year we barely scraped into the playoffs, this year we totally turned it around and after game 1 was arguably one of the strongest teams in the league. This was mainly because General Terms finally gave the public what they want- a steady non-stop stream of highlight reels involving TEs. Truly, TEs are badass. Go TE. I mean, General Terms.

My apologies, I was hoping to not be posting other than votes in this thread, but I think I need to comment. Please do not take offense to the following, I am merely trying to show my views.

Breakdown my list and you will discover:

Melbourne - 1 nominee
Newcastle - 1 nominee
Papeete - 1 nominee
Danish - 1 nominee
Fiji - 1 nominee
Portland - 1 nominee
FF.com - 1 nominee
Hamilton - 1 nominee
Perth - 1 nominee
Tasmania - 2 nominees
Las Vegas - 2 nominees
Samoa - 6 nominees
Undecided - 1 open

With all do respect I would neither consider this overly heavy towards any team. 6 out of 21 is less than 30% of the available awards. Yes, Samoa has 6 nominees from me for votes (5 different people), but that is a reflection of their team's strength. This is all dependant on week 16 performances. One of the other nominations from Samoa is for a coaching position. But thats my 2 cents.

I am not sure what all the fuss is about anyways. I mean, there were no restrictions or limits on who you can vote for. If one preson votes for all their players, they can: it might look bad, but its their right. Besides if everyone in this league puts in a vote for their MVP candidates and one or two people put in a vote for all players on one team, don't you think those two people's votes could potentially be cancelled out by the mass of votes going else where?

This is why you should urge every person with a player on your team to vote. The more votes there are the more accurate the final MVP awards will be.

JMHO

Originally posted by Mornacale


So, just taking a fairly useless straight average of our offensive and defensive standard deviations gives us Samoa's overall strength at 1.71 standard deviations above average, in the 95.64th percentile. And this is actually a conservative estimate of how favorably Samoa compares to the average (in these two particular ways). So...you may want to rework your bell curve argument.


edit: I should add some non-math response as well. I understand what you mean with your Turkey Gobbler example. But where do you draw the line? How does one determine that one player from Samoa deserves the award, but another player can't have one because that would be too many from Samoa?

Well look at the big brain on that guy! You probably used an abacus to figure that too! Yes I was required to take stats 101 too but wasnt putting that much time into backing up what was purely a supposed argument.

As far as were to draw the line I dont know. I guess thats why I was looking for the discussion. My team did play Pocatello, which of course added alot of stats, but not nearly as much as any team that got to play the Turkey Gobblers, which my team never has an opportunity to play. On the other side of that too everyone in Zeta conference had to play Vegas, Samoans, Inmates, Hippos, Rain, etc. all very strong teams. Now Alpha also has strong teams as well, but are they as strong? Or are they stronger yet? Would the league stat leaders be the same if the Gangsters had to have played Northbrook? Perhaps Northbrook would have put up 5 TDs against the Gangsters thus decimating their statistically dominating defense. We wont know until the playoffs, hell we might never know.

What I am getting at here is the stats only tell part of the story. Which is why I was encouraging us to look past the Gangsters stat dominance a bit. Perhaps take a look at who meant more to their teams at the respective positions or what individual player performances turned a game around that would otherwise not have been won. Of course that takes more time / effort that I think most (myself included) are willing to give I would guess.

Just food for thought.

Originally posted by TallyDawg
My apologies, I was hoping to not be posting other than votes in this thread, but I think I need to comment. Please do not take offense to the following, I am merely trying to show my views.


Too late! I was outraged immediately upon reading "My apologies". Whenever someone prefaces a state with that your about to be insulted.

I think the OC & DC coordinator awards should go to the guy that did more with less.

So for that reason I would nominate Papeete Bulldogs for offensive coordinator who, in spite of being mid pack record wise, are right up there in some of the offensive catagories.

As for defensive coordinator I will go with the Orlando Prime Timers. They rank near the top in points allowed but mostly I notice that their defense kept them in some REALLY tight games against strong opponents, even when they lost.

Coach of the Year: Fantasy Football Inmates
Offensive Coordinator of the Year: Samoa OC
Defensive Coordinator of the Year: Northbrook DC
League MVP: Bob Avellini

Offense:
Center: Bill Badas
Full Back: Gene Parmesan
Guard: Slap Entickle
Half Back: Randolph McAnderson
Offensive Tackle: Chris Shaffer
Quarterback: Bob Avellini
Tight End: Patrick Obando
Wide Receiver: Joel Robinson


Defense:
Cornerback: Tee Bone
Defensive End: Mister Moose
Defensive Tackle: Mon Luffe
Free Safety: I'm Rick James
Line Backer: Candyman #66
Strong Safety: Rambo Smoke

Special Teams:
Kicker: Tally Dawg
Punter: Ray Guy
Returner: David Easterling

Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by TallyDawg

My apologies, I was hoping to not be posting other than votes in this thread, but I think I need to comment. Please do not take offense to the following, I am merely trying to show my views.


Too late! I was outraged immediately upon reading "My apologies". Whenever someone prefaces a state with that your about to be insulted.

My apologies on that apology then.