Warrior General Games

thanks Dred. added to 2nd post.

Never mind, good read

Originally posted by TxSteve
The QB run game is actually most viable (for non runners) during early rookie. You do not need a QB with skill points in the running skills to gain yards….or even totally dominate.

Qbs can put points into run skills and then respec after rookie. That is what our QB did.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/87265

Corner threat work better for me than TE post. Puts up big yardage if they haul in the catch, hope its to the TE and not the WR3. Most of the time its the TE.

These are just a few pass plays you could add safely to your list, I could probably come up with several more. You can run the numbers to cross check but these have worked well for me at rookie. There are alot of plays that are total junk, but there are also more plays that work than are widely given credit in these forums. Its much easier for the lazy man to use another agents proven spam then to branch out seeking ones own canned meat.
I Double Back Out and Up
Shotgun WR Hook
Singleback Big Short Hooks
Pro Set TE Shallow Drag
Pro Set SS Pressure
Singleback Single Back Crossup

Originally posted by Jagat0r
These are just a few pass plays you could add safely to your list, I could probably come up with several more. You can run the numbers to cross check but these have worked well for me at rookie. There are alot of plays that are total junk, but there are also more plays that work than are widely given credit in these forums. Its much easier for the lazy man to use another agents proven spam then to branch out seeking ones own canned meat.
I Double Back Out and Up
Shotgun WR Hook
Singleback Big Short Hooks
Pro Set TE Shallow Drag
Pro Set SS Pressure
Singleback Single Back Crossup


Here are my opinions on those plays:

I Double Back Out and Up: this gets sacked by zero edge blitz 23.65% of the time per stobie's analyzer. That's way too much. Against "all" defensive plays it gets sacked 11.76%. That includes non-blitzes. Maybe you have a line/qb/rec combo that avoids this somehow in rookie - but someone new to the game won't.

Shotgun WR Hook - I do like this play when you have fewer than 10 yards to go. It still gets sacked a lot (11% vs zeb / 5% vs everything). It averages 9.22 yards per catch against zeb in rookie (8.88 yards per catch against everything). That excludes it for me on 1st/2nd/3rd an 10 -- because it means on average...it won't get me a first down, so it will require a 2nd reception to keep the drive going -- or a run against a likely middle overload against a good team.

Pro Set TE Shallow Drag -never heard of this play before. In rookie this season it has only been run 21 times -- sacked 19% of those (33% sack against zeb). Only averaged 3.4 yards per carry. So - have to avoid the sack -- then get somewhat lucky with a catch -- and then you're still sitting at 2nd and 6. This play wouldn't help you at all. Just to check - last season in rookie this was run 76 times - 18% sack rate - 4.26 yards per catch. I wouldn't run this even on 3rd and short - sack rate is just way too high.

Pro Set SS Pressure - sacked 16% by zeb. Holds up ok against everything dropping the sack # to 6.xx%. 7 yards per catch this season is where it gets broken for me. Why include a play that averages 7 yards per play....when I can instead use plays that average 10 yards per play (first down!). That isn't logical to me but maybe I'm wrong.

Singleback Single Back Crossup - against all defenses - sacked 17% of the time. Against zeb: sacked 66% of the time (yikes). If you do get the pass off...and do get a catch -- 8.88 yards per catch (which I address above).

Greatly, GREATLY appreciate the discussion Jag. Thank you. If you've built to successfully use these plays - than that is great. I'm afraid a new rookie wouldn't have success using them (and I personally haven't had success using them). I am only reporting the stats here from Stobie's analyzer - and my own personal philosophies about including pass plays that average less than 10 yards per carry.

Originally posted by TyDavis315
Corner threat work better for me than TE post. Puts up big yardage if they haul in the catch, hope its to the TE and not the WR3. Most of the time its the TE.

Thanks Ty.

When I've run corner threat this year - I've been sacked 31% of the time.

Looking at stobie's data

Corner threat against everything: 13.67% sack rate.
Corner threat against ZEB: 36% sack rate
even OWMB1 is getting 23% sack rate.

It does get 10 yards per catch when complete....but not worth the sacks you're going to take in my opinion - particularly when there are 5 better options out there.

If your teams have built to use it successfully in rookie - that is great. I'm not confident a new rookie would be able to do that.

Corner Threat is not a good play in rookie unless you know you're facing OWMB - and even then I'd say it's about the level of TE Post. I think the sack numbers above reflect that.

EDIT: Should have said "not a good play" period.

Im afraid including plays run on 3rd and long effects your sack numbers on any given play. 3rd down is the only situation where the QB holds the ball until the receivers cross the first down marker resulting in more sacks, especially when plays include shorter routes. I suppose a new player isnt smart enough to run a playbook that distinguishes between down and distance so its a mute point in this discussion, but if you could somehow remove 3rd and 9+ statistics from Stobies numbers it would tell a different story.

Originally posted by FairForever
Corner Threat is not a good play in rookie unless you know you're facing OWMB - and even then I'd say it's about the level of TE Post. I think the sack numbers above reflect that.

EDIT: Should have said "not a good play" period.

I've honestly figured out a way to use it consistently. Our OLine has a special build so that may be it, but most of our teams long plays come from corner threat. Decent hands and decent QB tech make it possible to use.

Originally posted by Jagat0r
Im afraid including plays run on 3rd and long effects your sack numbers on any given play. 3rd down is the only situation where the QB holds the ball until the receivers cross the first down marker resulting in more sacks, especially when plays include shorter routes. I suppose a new player isnt smart enough to run a playbook that distinguishes between down and distance so its a mute point in this discussion, but if you could somehow remove 3rd and 9+ statistics from Stobies numbers it would tell a different story.


I agree - including sack #s for all downs/distances certainly skews the data....also agree that if I could sort on stobie's that would give a much more detailed picture.

I don't want to go through them all again - but Proset TE drag short this season is 38% completion. There are way better options...even for 3rd and 3. I'm talking purely from a mathematical / best play possible perspective (TE crosses is 49%; shotgun WR hook is 49, singleback big short hook is 48%, etc)

Originally posted by TxSteve
I agree - including sack #s for all downs/distances certainly skews the data....also agree that if I could sort on stobie's that would give a much more detailed picture.

I don't want to go through them all again - but Proset TE drag short this season is 38% completion. There are way better options...even for 3rd and 3. I'm talking purely from a mathematical / best play possible perspective (TE crosses is 49%; shotgun WR hook is 49, singleback big short hook is 48%, etc)

Just goes to show you that plays can be used effectively by different teams. I havent run a rookie offense since season 11 (Im open to a rookie job for s14 if anyone needs) I wont go through them all but according to my data season 11 BoB offense we ran these plays..
Pro Set TE Shallow Drag 57 times 66% comp sacked 1 time for 10.8 ypc
I Double Back Out and Up 143 reps 46% comp sacks 11 10.9 ypc
PS SS Pressure 59 reps 54% o sacks 6.9 ypc

Originally posted by TyDavis315
I've honestly figured out a way to use it consistently. Our OLine has a special build so that may be it, but most of our teams long plays come from corner threat. Decent hands and decent QB tech make it possible to use.

are you talking about Nintendo Power?

173 times run
42.2% completion
7.5% sack
14.8 yards per catch

So that is decent imo. Of course on the whole - our league is incredibly weak. If I look only at Ladder matchups (you're ranked #20 so plenty of garbage games in there as well):
85 times run
32.9% completion
7.15% sack
14.0 yards per catch

Looking just at ladder games when you faced Zero Edge Blitz - you went 4/13 (30% completion) with 2 sacks. N

Originally posted by Jagat0r
Just goes to show you that plays can be used effectively by different teams. I havent run a rookie offense since season 11 (Im open to a rookie job for s14 if anyone needs) I wont go through them all but according to my data season 11 BoB offense we ran these plays..
Pro Set TE Shallow Drag 57 times 66% comp sacked 1 time for 10.8 ypc
I Double Back Out and Up 143 reps 46% comp sacks 11 10.9 ypc
PS SS Pressure 59 reps 54% o sacks 6.9 ypc


definitely understand what you're saying. what I'm trying to do here (it is imperfect) is look at offensive plays...and how they generally perform against the spammed defensive plays (ZEB). Sure - if you're playing someone who runs zone or man bases or ineffective blitzes -- then you can get some mileage out of lots of plays. But if you're playing against an experienced owner...you're probably going to see ZEB and OWMB1 or cover 3 tiger or something. I'm looking specifically at "what to run when you will face those plays" - because that is the root of the problem in rookie - spammed defense plays by knowledgeable players against newb rookie owners.

Game planning is certainly important. If I find a team running quarters against 5WR sets...I will plug in that hooks play and it does well...likewise - a team not blitzing opens up a lot. That doesn't happen against good/knowledgeable teams - so those are really just ways to exploit the lower level players (which is fine - that's what the game is).

looking back at BOB season 11 -
Pro Set TE Shallow Drag: I agree - you guys ran this well - 7/15 - 47% and no sacks against zeb and 10.7 yards per catch. Whether you ran it well because of good builds -- or because of smart situational opportunities (shorter to go) I don't know. But yes -effective for you (but still not really better than TE crosses/etc)

I Double Back out and up: 42 attempts vs ZEB - 15/42 35.7% with 7 sacks (actually 6 sacks and a -2 yard completion).

PS SS Pressure: vs ZEB: 6/12 no sacks 9.16 yards per catch - so pretty good situational use as well.

just bumping this up in prep for the new season.

I think passing is pretty screwed up too -- feel free to unload here if that's your thing (also to tell me how dumb I am which seems to be a much more popular topic)