Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
If your guys have less than 30 Cov Tech then they are not fully built Zone defenders. But I see your point.

You literally have no clue what Zone is, I've learned more about Zone in 2 seasons than you have in the 8+ you've been trying to run it. It wouldn't matter if I had 100 in coverage tech on each guy, deep passes would still shred Zone Coverage.

Let me caveat all the complaining about deep zone coverage and say that against Short and Medium passes it works pretty good. Against a few plays, it blows Man Coverage out of the water. They're a few plays out there that teams use a lot that I average close to a 10% INT rate against. So if you plan on running Zone in the future, you should do so knowing that you will have to run some Man Coverage at the Vet level.

Originally posted by Parab00n
You literally have no clue what Zone is, I've learned more about Zone in 2 seasons than you have in the 8+ you've been trying to run it. It wouldn't matter if I had 100 in coverage tech on each guy, deep passes would still shred Zone Coverage.

Para,

Is there anything besides a coding change of Zone Logic that could improve the results (not something slight but something much closer to Man) in your view?

I'm guessing not based on your comments, but thought I'd ask.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Thought I would update this thread with some different comparisons I've been running over the past 3 days. Everyone knows that Deep Zone Logic is by far it's biggest weakness, you play any team that runs Zone and you throw it deep every play you will most likely win and win easily. Here is some data on just how bad it really is though.


4 Games of Zone Coverage: (Omitted the largest blowout loss because it was really bad)

60% Completion Rate, 2 Sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles, 7 INTs, 10 Knocked Loose, 32 Deflections, 20 Drops, 24 TDs Allowed
Logzilla Offense: 287 Pass Attempts


4 Games of Man Coverage: All Man Base Plays, No Deep Zone, No Underneath Zone

46% Completion Rate, 6 Sacks, 4 Forced Fumbles, 6 INTs, 19 Knocked Loose, 36 Deflections, 22 Drops, 11 TDs Allowed
Logzilla Offense: 293 Pass Attempts

This is against fully built Zone defenders, no one on the team has higher than 20 Man Awareness. Most defenders have less than 30 Coverage Technique, all have decent INT and Deflection.

As I thought about this, here's the question that formed in my head:

How were Zone-built defenders with less than 20 Man Awareness & 30 Coverage Tech able to hold LZ to a 46% completion rate?

WTF DOES MAN AWARENESS & COVERAGE TECH DO??????????

It seems you don't need it in Zone and you don't need it in Man.

Originally posted by Xars
Para,

Is there anything besides a coding change of Zone Logic that could improve the results (not something slight but something much closer to Man) in your view?

I'm guessing not based on your comments, but thought I'd ask.



At this point just do away with Zone coverage and make it react exactly like Man Coverage. You do that ensuring that Zone SAs only work with Zone plays and Man SAs only work with Man plays. As it stands right now, I can get the occasional EOTP in Man Base and Zone Shark fires all the time. I'm not 100% sure if OAI fires in Zone however. You also have to make sure that Pump Fake only works against Zone plays(Not Man base with Zone logic) and Head Fake only works against Man Coverage.

When playing zone, cover tech is used to defend/keep up with the WR in your zone. If you don't know that then whatever....

Yes. That is how it should be. That is not how it is coded.

We discussed this. DBs use cov tech when a WR enters their zone and they start to chase them around. And Corn even responded and agreed and said if they take out cov tech and just use zone where the defender plays only the zone and not the WR, that it would be very bad for the defense.

Again, I ask - What does Cover Tech actually do?

Because there shouldn't be any possibility of 20 Man Aware / 30 Cover Tech defenders playing LZ and only giving up 46% completion against when they had a 60% completion against in Zone.

What's so OP with Man based Defenses, that 30 Cover Tech CBs can do that?

Maybe it's not that Zone sucks - maybe it's that Man is OP.

Cover tech is the ability to cover receivers that have route tech. Trust me, our guys were shutting everyone and their mother down in Seasoned league with all the essential skills and just 10 CT. We made the leap to pro/vet after that and we couldn't keep up with certain WR's for anything. So some CT is actually needed to be somewhat consistent against receivers that have pushed that route tech skill.

That being said, most people knew CT was a pretty overrated skill for some time now. 4 games is a pretty small set of data, but you can definitely tell the difference on the field if you watch enough games between the guys with and without Man Awareness.

Originally posted by bhall43
Cover tech is the ability to cover receivers that have route tech. Trust me, our guys were shutting everyone and their mother down in Seasoned league with all the essential skills and just 10 CT. We made the leap to pro/vet after that and we couldn't keep up with certain WR's for anything. So some CT is actually needed to be somewhat consistent against receivers that have pushed that route tech skill.

Originally posted by bhall43
That being said, most people knew CT was a pretty overrated skill for some time now. 4 games is a pretty small set of data, but you can definitely tell the difference on the field if you watch enough games between the guys with and without Man Awareness.

Well then that exposes the build mismatch between CBs and WRs. Borg and Cdog better be reading this.

If Cover Tech is used to keep up with Route Tech and Man Awareness is used to keep up with Route Elusiveness, there's a serious SP cost mismatch.

CB Man Awareness is much less then WR Route Elusiveness.
WR Route Tech is less costly than CB Cover Tech.

My guess is these are reversed. CB Awareness should be used to follow the WR Route Tech and then CB Cover Tech should be the check to keep up with WR Route Elusive. This is a much better pairing in terms of caps and SP costs.

Originally posted by bhall43
That being said, most people knew CT was a pretty overrated skill for some time now. 4 games is a pretty small set of data, but you can definitely tell the difference on the field if you watch enough games between the guys with and without Man Awareness.

So a CB just needs massive Man Awareness, Deflection/ Interception, Footwork, Quickness and Sprinting and only some Cover Tech???

Originally posted by Xars
Well then that exposes the build mismatch between CBs and WRs. Borg and Cdog better be reading this.

If Cover Tech is used to keep up with Route Tech and Man Awareness is used to keep up with Route Elusiveness, there's a serious SP cost mismatch.

CB Man Awareness is much less then WR Route Elusiveness.
WR Route Tech is less costly than CB Cover Tech.

My guess is these are reversed. CB Awareness should be used to follow the WR Route Tech and then CB Cover Tech should be the check to keep up with WR Route Elusive. This is a much better pairing in terms of caps and SP costs.



It is probably a bit of both, but the players builds that were open and generally getting open quite easily against my low tech guys were guys with decent route tech.