Warrior General Games

Originally posted by TxSteve
Depends which part of rookie you're talking about. Late rookie stuff starts working.

I'm all for fixing the mechanics....just like in the past with GL stuff - fixing the mechanics would be best -- removing dumb plays (GL rollout) is 2nd best option.

running offense are much tougher (in my opinion) than passing offenses. Have to get the right play matchups --- where passing doesn't have to change up their playbook and tactics as much from game to game.

No running skill QB's being able to run though speaks to broken plays in my opinion more so than anything else.

We ran with our QB fairly often on the way up the tiers. QB with no running skills -- and HB with no blocking skills (in my case) did so well that there must be something going on behind the scenes that is being boosted/ignored.

You make it sound like your QB needs running skills to be untouched on a rollout. You are also a balanced team so I would assume you have some run blocking skills within your players. The rollout with Ashland's McDermott is super awful. I removed it from my playbook after a couple scrims with Omaha because it was an auto TFL.

While you have to scout and get the right run plays called early in the career. Later it becomes all about winning through build power for run teams. The dedicated build power of run-focused teams begins to gain the edge in the RNG engine later down the line. Considering all you usually need for a decent gain on the *good* outside runs are small victories of 1 held block or 1 broken tackle. When you factor in the build power of those HBs, of those pulling Olineman, of those blocking TE's and WRs. Those small victories become more frequent, and the more often you get multiple small victories on any given play, the more often you get the long TD.

Passing focused teams also enjoy the benefit of build power. To a lesser degree. They still get unfortunate circumstances of the occasional defender being in a lucky spot, or a drop, even an instant spin cycle disrupting the QB. However they get 3 shots to make a minimum 10yard play to keep a drive going so they are also hard to stall (as opposed to you can stall the all run team in 3 plays with the right defensive calls if your guys win their rolls). The small victories from passing teams usually come from route elusiveness, and perfect passing pockets and even then aren't guaranteed to produce big plays like a held block and broken tackle from running plays. Still happens often enough for it to be viable though.

My point is you can stop pure running teams early with the right play selections and a somewhat decent build dedication in rookie. Maybe sophomore. After that though it's my opinion that build power takes over. Then the running team can beat the perfect play call a few times a game until you demoralize the opponent. It's why I feel running teams are more reliable than passing teams. Add in the fact it also helps with your return game and then it touches the gap of being OP.

Personally I think the majority of these run teams rely too heavily on the outside run and makes choosing the right defensive play call easier, however I understand why they do it due to my "small victory" theory above.

Originally posted by Danthesportsman
First off, I'd say as the person calling for the change the burden is on you to at least present some actual evidence that QB runs are OP. Why do you think they are OP? Is it because of the following quote...?

Stobie: what data would you guys like to see?

Me: I'd like to see data on QB runs in rookie.


why are all the QB run spammer getting their panties in a bunch? Stobie will provide the data - and the data will probably support what you are all saying. There is just no need for arguing at this stage.

I don't know if qb rollouts are imbalanced. But they're awful for the game. New players get discouraged from losing to such cheese or start doing it themselves to other teams, exacerbating the problem. No Name used them with no running skills very effectively.

Originally posted by Danthesportsman
An all run team is all about the play call matchup.

At least until tackles are broken consistently. Then you can just vary the playcalls and be pretty solid.

The all run teams in rookie who didn't play the matchups and just ran a single set of plays struggled down the stretch against anyone legit.

Originally posted by bhall43
You make it sound like your QB needs running skills to be untouched on a rollout. You are also a balanced team so I would assume you have some run blocking skills within your players. The rollout with Ashland's McDermott is super awful. I removed it from my playbook after a couple scrims with Omaha because it was an auto TFL.

Yes - I think a QB should need running skills to be untouched on a rollout.


(not sure where you're going with the balanced skills - legacy had no blocking skills at HB or WR and minimal at TE --- of course the stunners had no blocking on HBs)

Originally posted by TxSteve
Stobie: what data would you guys like to see?

Me: I'd like to see data on QB runs in rookie.


why are all the QB run spammer getting their panties in a bunch? Stobie will provide the data - and the data will probably support what you are all saying. There is just no need for arguing at this stage.



Claims QB Run's are OP.

Finds it weird it starts a discussion.

Originally posted by TxSteve
Yes - I think a QB should need running skills to be untouched on a rollout.


(not sure where you're going with the balanced skills - legacy had no blocking skills at HB or WR and minimal at TE --- of course the stunners had no blocking on HBs)

So your oline is pass based?

Alexander:
4 of top 5 rushers are QBs
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/league/125

Hannibal
top 3 rushers are QBs
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/league/122

Napoloeon
2 of top 3 are QBs
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/league/123

Patton
Top 2 are QBs
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/league/124

Saladin
3 of top 5 (including top 2) are QBs
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/league/126

Scipio
Congrats Scipio (where Ashland is) - you refused to involve yourself in the QB run spam. Don't see a QB until you get to #19 on the list and that QB only has 200 yards rushing.


You guys are probably right though - the fact that so many QBs dominate the rushing stats in 5 of 6 of the rookie leagues probably has nothing to do with the game mechanics being broken on QB rollout plays.

Originally posted by bhall43
So your oline is pass based?

more balanced I think - none are my players. Sorry - I thought you were talking about outside blockers/hbs as the key to taking advantage of the #s

Originally posted by FairForever
I don't know if qb rollouts are imbalanced. But they're awful for the game. New players get discouraged from losing to such cheese or start doing it themselves to other teams, exacerbating the problem. No Name used them with no running skills very effectively.

No Name had 64 QB runs out of 2477 plays called (2.5% of play calls in league, ladder and playoff games). Those runs went for 340 yards (5.3 ypc) and 19 TFLs, hardly enough to base an argument that QB runs are OP.

Also, using QB runs is "cheese" but building a passing offense around spamming 3 pass plays isn't?

Originally posted by Danthesportsman
Just so we are clear, your argument is that we should not get good results when you get good play call matchups?

First - in rookie - trips qb rollout vs ZEB should not = automatic touchdown. Show me another single play matchup in rookie that so consistently leads to a monster gain? There isn't one. The play is broken.

Originally posted by Danthesportsman
An all run team is all about the play call matchup. This isn't the passing game where you simply spam 5 different pass plays over and over no matter what defenses are called, in order to be successful with an all run team you have got to get good play matchups and you need to hit some homeruns on times the matchups are in your favor.

I'm laughing that you're lecturing me as if I don't know anything about running in GLB2

Originally posted by TxSteve
Yes - I think a QB should need running skills to be untouched on a rollout.


Cool, mine have running skills, do they pass your test?

Pure passings cheese comes from always having a legit chance of a 10+ yard first down within 3 plays.

Originally posted by TxSteve
First - in rookie - trips qb rollout vs ZEB should not = automatic touchdown. Show me another single play matchup in rookie that so consistently leads to a monster gain? There isn't one. The play is broken.

I'm actually in favor of anything that makes ZEB weaker even if my team can't really take advantage of it.