Warrior General Games

I get it Gal. I agree there should be a pass awareness check for bullet or lob.

Originally posted by peeti
There is a diiference between the "pushed outta bounds" which is totally legit and should be used vs real power backs even more from a logical point and the "HB just runs out of bound", which is kinda silly in many cases espcially if he does it right before the first down marker or sth like that...but that is off topic

Not really, they're both detrimental mechanics to the realism of offenses in this game.

Maybe instead of messing with the current passing code we just add another QB skill..."Pass Finess" or "Pass Leading". It will determine how well your QB can lead the receiver.

Galithor is correct.

Changes are going to have to be continually made in order to find the balance between pass deflecting (which is the most underpowered aspect of pass defending), fall down frequency, and lead passing. At this point the defenses best pass defense is overthrows, KL, and fall downs. Lesser so deflected passes.

Passing game needs a lot of tweaks...

-decrease catch rates dramatically in double coverage

-improve defender reaction to screen passes

-improve receiver ability to catch the ball and not fall down if not diving/jumping/heavily covered

-improve QB awareness towards lobbing passes when the receiver is open down field

-increase impact of vertical on pass deflection

-decrease cost of interception skill, or add an SA for intercepting in double coverage/off deflections for CBs

-decrease cost of power running for receivers

Originally posted by Mysterio
Passing game needs a lot of tweaks...

-decrease catch rates dramatically in double coverage

-improve defender reaction to screen passes

-improve receiver ability to catch the ball and not fall down if not diving/jumping/heavily covered

-improve QB awareness towards lobbing passes when the receiver is open down field

-increase impact of vertical on pass deflection

-decrease cost of interception skill, or add an SA for intercepting in double coverage/off deflections for CBs

-decrease cost of power running for receivers



Agree on most. The bolded one is just pointed out as that could simply be done by "nerfing" CiT rolls...That would also help in early levels where guys with almost 100% Rec Hands investment make nearly every catch with the defender right over them. Needs a small tweak there imo.

Otherwise yeah, receivers need to stop falling like flies. that is stupid in VET games espcially

Galithor is right. On I've Never Had Sex, we get to watch our rushing attack always shit on lesser defenses. Why? Because they aren't built to stop us most of the time and that gets exploited. Why shouldn't the same be for passing? Why shouldn't a guy running a 4.3 flat (lol40 but still) be able to completely torch over and over a guy that only runs as fast as a 350 lineman due to the sim being shit and punishing high power throwers? On my team, we boosted the QBs throw power up by about 15 points and have a guy running that fast, yet we got punished for it by repeated hard throws when there's no need.

It's not the fact that he scored 87, he and the owners that built those Superstar players rightfully deserve to see their players fully exploit weak defenses like rushing offenses do.

Also I am an eternal virgin who's privates will never come within a foot of a nude girls body.

Originally posted by peeti
Agree on most. The bolded one is just pointed out as that could simply be done by "nerfing" CiT rolls...That would also help in early levels where guys with almost 100% Rec Hands investment make nearly every catch with the defender right over them. Needs a small tweak there imo.

Otherwise yeah, receivers need to stop falling like flies. that is stupid in VET games espcially


Make nearly every catch? Passing by good teams in rookie ball this season has been around 50% completion rate and majority of those catches come from being "open". Also has it occurred to anybody that rec hands is a required roll after winning a CIT roll? So yeah. Early focus has to be on rec hands or passing games don't get 1st downs. I honestly think passing and running is pretty balanced right now. Obviously tweaks still need to be made to both passing and running offenses but I would like to see defenses catch up a little bit first but on even footing.

funny thing is, I think decreasing the number of bullets might help with deflections some too. Wouldn't surprise me at all if it's difficult to catch, it's also difficult to defend the pass.

Double coverage should definitely "work together". I strongly suspect the sim is just doing two independent dice rolls. It'd be better if the second dice roll were easier following in close proximity to the first dice roll.

Maybe something like after every failed pass defense dice roll, that particular CiT roll gets a -10 penalty for the next 3 ticks. So if you had a second defender get another dice roll on the same tick or shortly there after, they'd be up against a weaker CiT roll. If there were 3 defenders, and the first two failed, then the third defender would be up against CiT -20.

Or something like that. Either way, multiple deflection attempts ought to cause some sort of stacking debuff to the recievers ability to make that particular catch against each successive defender.

That said, I strongly suspect what we consider "defensed" passes that appear to be easily caught aren't even commonly suffering a CiT roll. There's nothing that indicates to us whether we're right about a defender even being involved in the play when the pass is caught. We only know when the defender succeeded based on the "deflection" or "nearby defense" tags on the play. Much of what we're thinking is double covered might not even be effectively single covered as far as the sim is concerned.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
Make nearly every catch? Passing by good teams in rookie ball this season has been around 50% completion rate and majority of those catches come from being "open". Also has it occurred to anybody that rec hands is a required roll after winning a CIT roll? So yeah. Early focus has to be on rec hands or passing games don't get 1st downs. I honestly think passing and running is pretty balanced right now. Obviously tweaks still need to be made to both passing and running offenses but I would like to see defenses catch up a little bit first but on even footing.

Well no. I could show you many examples. And you admitted that you are also one of the teams who invest heavily in hands which ofc SHOULD lead to more open passes beeing caught but the amount of passing beeing caught in tight coverage is as ridiculous as it was last season in that tier.

All I am saying is that a guy with 20 CiT shouldnt catch as many passes in tight coverage.

At BSB we are also investing in CIT for sure. I was just saying a receiver still probably has to pass a rec hands roll after successfully passing a CIT roll. That being said a receiver with 20 CIT is still going to pass some CIT rolls and this would probably have to be a carefully thought out change. Passing requires teams to pass CIT rolls in order to produce enough first downs just to have chances to get a TD. Maybe the ceiling for needed dice rolls should raise every season or something? I don't know. It will be interesting to see a comparison of stats this offseason as to the % of unable to secures due to nearby defenders and % of deflections as well as the % of drops/completions as a whole if Stobie has the time to do so. Would be the only real way to tell how last seasons changes effected the passing game across various tiers IMO.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
At BSB we are also investing in CIT for sure. I was just saying a receiver still probably has to pass a rec hands roll after successfully passing a CIT roll. That being said a receiver with 20 CIT is still going to pass some CIT rolls and this would probably have to be a carefully thought out change. Passing requires teams to pass CIT rolls in order to produce enough first downs just to have chances to get a TD. Maybe the ceiling for needed dice rolls should raise every season or something? I don't know. It will be interesting to see a comparison of stats this offseason as to the % of unable to secures due to nearby defenders and % of deflections as well as the % of drops/completions as a whole if Stobie has the time to do so. Would be the only real way to tell how last seasons changes effected the passing game across various tiers IMO.

Kinda...after last season I figure more teams go with more pass D skills tho^^I mean last season was really VERY lopsided.
Again. CiT rolls are too strong in early rookie imo. I totally respect your point and we are not affected anyway as changes would come after the season but rookie passing (with the right plays) is a thing of unrealistic rolls, considering those are like peewees. Not necessarly OP, but also not in right balance. If they fix GL Defense in offseason or delete GL formation, you will see what I mean in next seasons rankings. Will be even worse than last season then

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
At BSB we are also investing in CIT for sure. I was just saying a receiver still probably has to pass a rec hands roll after successfully passing a CIT roll. That being said a receiver with 20 CIT is still going to pass some CIT rolls and this would probably have to be a carefully thought out change. Passing requires teams to pass CIT rolls in order to produce enough first downs just to have chances to get a TD. Maybe the ceiling for needed dice rolls should raise every season or something? I don't know. It will be interesting to see a comparison of stats this offseason as to the % of unable to secures due to nearby defenders and % of deflections as well as the % of drops/completions as a whole if Stobie has the time to do so. Would be the only real way to tell how last seasons changes effected the passing game across various tiers IMO.

I honestly think many of what we assume are "failed CiT" dice rolls are actually "non-CiT" dice rolls. Just because the defender appears to be on top of the WR in the graphical display of the sim doesn't mean that he's actually causing a CiT dice roll.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if a guy with 50 deflection, 70 diving, 70 vertical was able to cause more "nearby defensed" plays than a guy with 80 deflection, 30 diving, 30 vertical. Reasoning: He's actually got the x (diving) and y (vertical) axis "reach" to force a dice roll on more plays.

But who the hell knows.

I doubt diving affects deflection rolls, that seems too logical for the sim. how often do you see a defender dive to deflect a pass