right - also - it is my opinion that Stobies formula places way too much power in the hands of current GLB2 ladder rank. They are not independent rankings (and with half of the games coming from league games - league make up has a tremendous effect on it as well)
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > 2/27 Ladder Talk
Parab00n
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@Stobie
Would changing the Power Ranking formula to use 1 Part ladder rank & 1 part opponent record make the rankings any more accurate than using 2 parts ladder/record?
EDIT: Just asking and I know it's a slippery slope when we start trying to adjust the formula to get the rankings we want.
Would changing the Power Ranking formula to use 1 Part ladder rank & 1 part opponent record make the rankings any more accurate than using 2 parts ladder/record?
EDIT: Just asking and I know it's a slippery slope when we start trying to adjust the formula to get the rankings we want.
Edited by Parab00n on Feb 26, 2015 08:00:15
Edited by Parab00n on Feb 26, 2015 07:58:56
bhall43
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Originally posted by Jagat0r
Sometimes I don't even see games effecting the ladder, for example Seasoned Baltimore Giants upsetting Hub City yesterday. Hub City made no drop staying at #3 and Baltimore made up little ground jumping from #16 to #15. Makes pulling off an upset a little disappointing in the aftermath.
The next team beyond Hub City has some ground to make up. Hub is actually 86 and DWC is actually 89 right now. You are just behind the #14 team in the ladder right now at 114. But you have a bit of ground to make up to overtake the #13 team at 108.
Sometimes I don't even see games effecting the ladder, for example Seasoned Baltimore Giants upsetting Hub City yesterday. Hub City made no drop staying at #3 and Baltimore made up little ground jumping from #16 to #15. Makes pulling off an upset a little disappointing in the aftermath.
The next team beyond Hub City has some ground to make up. Hub is actually 86 and DWC is actually 89 right now. You are just behind the #14 team in the ladder right now at 114. But you have a bit of ground to make up to overtake the #13 team at 108.
Jagat0r
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Originally posted by TxSteve
right - also - it is my opinion that Stobies formula places way too much power in the hands of current GLB2 ladder rank. They are not independent rankings (and with half of the games coming from league games - league make up has a tremendous effect on it as well)
There is already some realignment due to teams resetting or not renewing. But would realigning all leagues every season to establish ranking parity amongst leagues help make league games and league strength carry less impact on ladder rank?
right - also - it is my opinion that Stobies formula places way too much power in the hands of current GLB2 ladder rank. They are not independent rankings (and with half of the games coming from league games - league make up has a tremendous effect on it as well)
There is already some realignment due to teams resetting or not renewing. But would realigning all leagues every season to establish ranking parity amongst leagues help make league games and league strength carry less impact on ladder rank?
Edited by Jagat0r on Feb 26, 2015 08:04:36
Originally posted by Jagat0r
There is already some realignment due to teams resetting or not renewing. But would realigning all leagues every season to establish ranking parity amongst leagues help make league games and league strength carry less impact on ladder rank?
negative with that is that it destroys league rivalries that can build up over the months
There is already some realignment due to teams resetting or not renewing. But would realigning all leagues every season to establish ranking parity amongst leagues help make league games and league strength carry less impact on ladder rank?
negative with that is that it destroys league rivalries that can build up over the months
bhall43
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Originally posted by Jagat0r
There is already some realignment due to teams resetting or not renewing. But would realigning all leagues every season to establish ranking parity amongst leagues help make league games and league strength carry less impact on ladder rank?
The idea is to keep leagues in tact for rivalries. There just needs to be more ELO movement via ladder games.
There is already some realignment due to teams resetting or not renewing. But would realigning all leagues every season to establish ranking parity amongst leagues help make league games and league strength carry less impact on ladder rank?
The idea is to keep leagues in tact for rivalries. There just needs to be more ELO movement via ladder games.
Originally posted by Parab00n
Still heavily influenced by current ladder rank. Tiger is severely overrated, QC is the only potential top 5 team there and that isn't even a lock.
You're really just nitpicking now and trying to grab onto something. Not including Air Raid in that is a nutshot. Tiger's elite are just the same as any other league, plus imo an added team in that top 5 potential range.
Look at Helium and locate your top 5 potential teams. I can buy into AA, but then who? Jebs isn't a top 5 team. DD 2.0 might have a case.
Look at Hydrogen and locate your top 5 potential teams. I can buy into the Virgins, but then who? Run GLB is your closest. Stoners sure as hell aren't.
Look at Monroe and locate your top 5 potential teams. You've got the Stunners and Harrisonburg. Can Crushers are a good team, too.
Look at Tiger and locate your top 5 potential teams. You've got Air Raid and Salty. Add in Queen City and you've got Ronin there, too.
Still heavily influenced by current ladder rank. Tiger is severely overrated, QC is the only potential top 5 team there and that isn't even a lock.
You're really just nitpicking now and trying to grab onto something. Not including Air Raid in that is a nutshot. Tiger's elite are just the same as any other league, plus imo an added team in that top 5 potential range.
Look at Helium and locate your top 5 potential teams. I can buy into AA, but then who? Jebs isn't a top 5 team. DD 2.0 might have a case.
Look at Hydrogen and locate your top 5 potential teams. I can buy into the Virgins, but then who? Run GLB is your closest. Stoners sure as hell aren't.
Look at Monroe and locate your top 5 potential teams. You've got the Stunners and Harrisonburg. Can Crushers are a good team, too.
Look at Tiger and locate your top 5 potential teams. You've got Air Raid and Salty. Add in Queen City and you've got Ronin there, too.
Originally posted by Parab00n
The problem is that Helium/Hydrogen is just as good as those leagues you mentioned but are stuck with a low ranking because how bad the ladder ELO is from past wins. Thats why you get teams like Legacy, New York Nightmare, etc, etc that stay where they are.
Requoting this because you've drifted away from your statement.
Churned your argument into Tiger being too highly ranked. I can see some easing there, but Helium and Hydrogen don't compete with Tiger and Monroe.
The problem is that Helium/Hydrogen is just as good as those leagues you mentioned but are stuck with a low ranking because how bad the ladder ELO is from past wins. Thats why you get teams like Legacy, New York Nightmare, etc, etc that stay where they are.
Requoting this because you've drifted away from your statement.
Churned your argument into Tiger being too highly ranked. I can see some easing there, but Helium and Hydrogen don't compete with Tiger and Monroe.
Edited by InRomoWeTrust on Feb 26, 2015 08:14:39
bhall43
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Ya Hydrogen is really 2 teams in terms of consistency. Stoners, Rusty, and Gatling could give a team some hiccups on a day but no real consistency at all as of right now.
Here was Tezed latest (I think)
seems we are getting off course now though...I don't think anyone can argue: Are many teams in Tiger ranked too high in the ladder based on their current season/record/team/skill level? Absolutely yes. They pass ELO back and forth (puff puff give you bastards) and that is where most of the season 1 teams are who have an extra season or two of ELO gathering.
1. Minnesota Stunners - Monroe
2. I've Never Had Sex - Hydrogen
3. Alaskan Assassins - Helium
4. Harrisonburg Bulldogs - Monroe
5. Air Raid - Tiger
6. Doinitin Djibouti 2.0 - Helium
7. MMA Can Crushers - Monroe
8. Run GLB - Hydrogen
9. Rhode Island Falcons - Helium
10. Queen City Brewmasters - Tiger
11. The Salty Runback - Tiger
12. Stark Dire Wolves - Tiger
13. Minnesota Balanced
14. Doinitin Djibouti -
15. Portland Ronin - Tiger
16. Richmond Raiders -
17. Stoners - Hydrogen
18. Portland Storm - Helium
19. Gatling Valley Pirates - Hydrogen
20. Oregon Ducks - Monroe
seems we are getting off course now though...I don't think anyone can argue: Are many teams in Tiger ranked too high in the ladder based on their current season/record/team/skill level? Absolutely yes. They pass ELO back and forth (puff puff give you bastards) and that is where most of the season 1 teams are who have an extra season or two of ELO gathering.
1. Minnesota Stunners - Monroe
2. I've Never Had Sex - Hydrogen
3. Alaskan Assassins - Helium
4. Harrisonburg Bulldogs - Monroe
5. Air Raid - Tiger
6. Doinitin Djibouti 2.0 - Helium
7. MMA Can Crushers - Monroe
8. Run GLB - Hydrogen
9. Rhode Island Falcons - Helium
10. Queen City Brewmasters - Tiger
11. The Salty Runback - Tiger
12. Stark Dire Wolves - Tiger
13. Minnesota Balanced
14. Doinitin Djibouti -
15. Portland Ronin - Tiger
16. Richmond Raiders -
17. Stoners - Hydrogen
18. Portland Storm - Helium
19. Gatling Valley Pirates - Hydrogen
20. Oregon Ducks - Monroe
tezed
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Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
Look at Tiger and locate your top 5 potential teams. You've got Air Raid and Salty. Add in Queen City and you've got Ronin there, too.
Salty is a top 5 team this season? I'm not buying it. Air Raid is barely holding on now.
Look at Tiger and locate your top 5 potential teams. You've got Air Raid and Salty. Add in Queen City and you've got Ronin there, too.
Salty is a top 5 team this season? I'm not buying it. Air Raid is barely holding on now.
Originally posted by Parab00n
The problem is that Helium/Hydrogen is just as good as those leagues you mentioned but are stuck with a low ranking because how bad the ladder ELO is from past wins. Thats why you get teams like Legacy, New York Nightmare, etc, etc that stay where they are.
On the other hand, though, what would Legacy or New York's record be if they were in Helium or Hydrogen? I'd say either team would have 6 or 7 league wins at least (depending on conference). If AA were dropped into Tiger, how many losses would they have seeing that both Legacy and New York (mid-tier in Tiger) played them close?
We're in a bit of a catch-22. If leagues are balanced each season, we lose rivalries. If leagues aren't balanced each season the disparity of league play affects the ladder. Someone will be pissed in either scenario.
Originally posted by TxSteve
Here was Tezed latest (I think)
Originally posted by tezed
Monroe > Helium >= Tiger > Hydrogen
What are your rankings based on? Are they subjective or objective?
The problem is that Helium/Hydrogen is just as good as those leagues you mentioned but are stuck with a low ranking because how bad the ladder ELO is from past wins. Thats why you get teams like Legacy, New York Nightmare, etc, etc that stay where they are.
On the other hand, though, what would Legacy or New York's record be if they were in Helium or Hydrogen? I'd say either team would have 6 or 7 league wins at least (depending on conference). If AA were dropped into Tiger, how many losses would they have seeing that both Legacy and New York (mid-tier in Tiger) played them close?
We're in a bit of a catch-22. If leagues are balanced each season, we lose rivalries. If leagues aren't balanced each season the disparity of league play affects the ladder. Someone will be pissed in either scenario.
Originally posted by TxSteve
Here was Tezed latest (I think)
Originally posted by tezed
Monroe > Helium >= Tiger > Hydrogen
What are your rankings based on? Are they subjective or objective?
Edited by AirMcMVP on Feb 26, 2015 09:29:41
tezed
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Originally posted by AirMcMVP
What are your rankings based on? Are they subjective or objective?
Okay here we go. Are my rankings subjective or objective? A bit of both, but I'll get down to the truth, more so than calling New York or Legacy threats to AA.
Monroe has the Stunners #1 team in the game. No one is close. Harrisonburg is a LEGIT top 5 team, but can't beat Stunners or Virgins imo. Can Crushers are a top 10 team regardless, probably higher. Ducks and Goons(when sonto tries) are both top 25 teams based on how they play (much similar to Legacy and New York)
Thats #1, #3.5, and a top 10 team (probably top 7)
Tiger has Air Raid who is no longer a threat to anyone in the top 4 imo. They are #5-7 right now. QCB is coming on strong, but they are only a top 10 caliber team. Salty is top 10 for sure based on their defense, but not a top 5 team anymore. Portland Ronin is garbage. They are a top 20, no higher, anyone who loses to them, doesn't deserve a spot in the top 10. Starks are a top 20 team. New York is top 25, maybe a fringe top 20 team. Legacy is top 25 maybe.
Helium has the #3 or #4 best team in AA, DD2 who one can possible pin in the top 5, but we will say top 10. RIF and Storm are top 20 teams and the Jebs are a top 25 team.
So heres the problem. Is a league like Tiger better because of the fringe top 25-30 teams they have? None can handle the top 4 teams in the game, QCB can give some matchup problems, but have trouble with some top 10-15 teams as it is. Salty can hang, but they can't win these games against AA, Virgins, Stunners, Harrisonburg.
I value strength of leagues by who the real contenders are, not by how many decent teams that will play close.
If we had a "World League" what would happen. That's my thinking, are there some truths to seeing the value in a decent middle pack, sure, but I don't believe in that hype.
What are your rankings based on? Are they subjective or objective?
Okay here we go. Are my rankings subjective or objective? A bit of both, but I'll get down to the truth, more so than calling New York or Legacy threats to AA.
Monroe has the Stunners #1 team in the game. No one is close. Harrisonburg is a LEGIT top 5 team, but can't beat Stunners or Virgins imo. Can Crushers are a top 10 team regardless, probably higher. Ducks and Goons(when sonto tries) are both top 25 teams based on how they play (much similar to Legacy and New York)
Thats #1, #3.5, and a top 10 team (probably top 7)
Tiger has Air Raid who is no longer a threat to anyone in the top 4 imo. They are #5-7 right now. QCB is coming on strong, but they are only a top 10 caliber team. Salty is top 10 for sure based on their defense, but not a top 5 team anymore. Portland Ronin is garbage. They are a top 20, no higher, anyone who loses to them, doesn't deserve a spot in the top 10. Starks are a top 20 team. New York is top 25, maybe a fringe top 20 team. Legacy is top 25 maybe.
Helium has the #3 or #4 best team in AA, DD2 who one can possible pin in the top 5, but we will say top 10. RIF and Storm are top 20 teams and the Jebs are a top 25 team.
So heres the problem. Is a league like Tiger better because of the fringe top 25-30 teams they have? None can handle the top 4 teams in the game, QCB can give some matchup problems, but have trouble with some top 10-15 teams as it is. Salty can hang, but they can't win these games against AA, Virgins, Stunners, Harrisonburg.
I value strength of leagues by who the real contenders are, not by how many decent teams that will play close.
If we had a "World League" what would happen. That's my thinking, are there some truths to seeing the value in a decent middle pack, sure, but I don't believe in that hype.
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