Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
Um...what?

I'll bold the relevant part.

"forcing ladder match ups against similar caliber teams within your own tier isn't going to distort anything."

I made a point of using both "similar caliber" and "within your own tier" so that it would be clear they are two different qualifiers. Similar caliber does not mean everyone of the same tier. For example, similar caliber teams that also happen to be within the same tier, would be these three in Professional:

- Minnesota Balanced Raid (Pegasus league)
- Richmond Raiders (Orion league)
- Doinitin Djibouti (Pegasus league)

Richmond Raiders have not played either Minnesota Balanced Raid or Doinitin Djibouti yet. Those are clearly the top two teams in Pegasus, and then there's a drop off. So for the example of Richmond Raiders, they should only be required to play those two, and then the other teams in Pegasus would fall under the realm of a normal ladder draw.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Richmond Raiders have not played either Minnesota Balanced Raid or Doinitin Djibouti yet.

Not only that, Richmond didn't play those two teams last season either. Not sure why people are taking this to an extreme level. This isn't about exclusive matchups against your own tier, just a slight bump in preference towards playing in your own tier. Top teams should all play each other at least once.

Originally posted by bhall43
How do those teams move up playing within tier without playing up a tier? For teams like Minnesota Air Raid and Richmond you are forcing them to play down rather than up.

Not really, teams that are #1 in their tier by a large margin have a smaller pool of teams in their own tier to play. This means the majority of their ladder matches will be out of tier anyways.

Originally posted by Rob.
Not really, teams that are #1 in their tier by a large margin have a smaller pool of teams in their own tier to play. This means the majority of their ladder matches will be out of tier anyways.

MN has 6 teams within 20 ranks of them non league from their tier. Playing those matches within tiers means that those vet teams above them play each other. That is going to slow down the rate at which those Pro teams move up and group them more together.

Pro vs. Pro means Vet ends up facing Vet. Those shit teams ahead of the pro teams will only last longer playing each other. It is just another delay for those pro teams to make it into the top 20.

Originally posted by bhall43
MN has 6 teams within 20 ranks of them non league from their tier. Playing those matches within tiers means that those vet teams above them play each other. That is going to slow down the rate at which those Pro teams move up and group them more together.

Perfect, so they should play all 6 of those teams. That leaves 10 other ladder matches against other teams. I don't see a problem there.

You are acting like every time a team plays out of tier, they are playing against a higher ladder ranked team, which isn't the case. Plenty of times teams play down in the ladder to play a team in a higher tier.

Originally posted by Rob.
Perfect, so they should play all 6 of those teams. That leaves 10 other ladder matches against other teams. I don't see a problem there.

You are acting like every time a team plays out of tier, they are playing against a higher ladder ranked team, which isn't the case. Plenty of times teams play down in the ladder to play a team in a higher tier.

It is only 6 because a lot of the teams don't end up playing each other so they break apart in the ranks. Once they start playing each other they will end up playing most everyone within their tier. Thus grouping that tier together on the ladder and delaying their ability to move up.

You have to think ahead here.

Seasoned teams get priority for seasoned.
Journey teams get priority for Journey.
Pro teams get priority for Pro.
Vet ends up playing Vet.

You keep doing that for all those seasons and you are just going to move up as a group. Now there is nothing horribly wrong with that for the beyond top 8-10 teams in those tiers. But the top 5 or so teams get the shaft on that as they will only be playing their tier and a couple other shit teams from above a tier before moving right back into that same element the next season before they finally reach Vet and have to move up over most of that tier.

You implement this and you distort ladder rankings even more so than they already are. If you don't want teams getting hammered in Seasoned so hard then the Rookie/Sophomore protection needs to go away.

I think there should be some setting like "favor tier opponents" but if you have already played all same tier opponents within X ladder spots of you this season, then you can play another tier opponent.

Originally posted by Rob.
Perfect, so they should play all 6 of those teams. That leaves 10 other ladder matches against other teams. I don't see a problem there.

You are acting like every time a team plays out of tier, they are playing against a higher ladder ranked team, which isn't the case. Plenty of times teams play down in the ladder to play a team in a higher tier.

The entire point of the ladder isn't about tiers, it's about ranking teams first to last.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
I think there should be some setting like "favor tier opponents" but if you have already played all same tier opponents within X ladder spots of you this season, then you can play another tier opponent.

The only way this works if the Global ladder goes away. Otherwise the rankings are worse than they already are.

Then gets tournaments. I care more about who the best in my tier is than overall.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Then gets tournaments. I care more about who the best in my tier is than overall.

Tier trophies = participation ribbons

Personally I would prefer tier-specific ladder matches to the current system. If I'm number 1 in the ladder in my tier I dont want to play shitty teams a tier above me, I want to prove I'm #1 by continuing to beat everyone below me. If Im not #1 I want as many chances as I can to get matched up with them and beat them. Just put in a formula to discourage repeat matches against the same team and itll work fine. Who the fuck cares if #1 Journeyman team beats down on the inactive Pro/Vet teams, nobody wants to watch that shit. You dont see high school state champions playing against shitty Div 3 college teams, and you dont see the top college teams playing NFL teams. Games with such a talent disparity are shitty to watch.