Warrior General Games

Originally posted by ClutchDreams
Is there a specific strategy that you use for 3rd down passing progressions?

3rd-and-long passing is hard at high levels. GLB isn't in a great spot for the passing game currently. Then you have INT secondaries that can luckbox ruin your day. Then you have heavy blitz teams that can make your QB eat dirt.

You need to avoid 3rd-and-long as much as possible. If you are having a ton of 3rd and long attempts it means your 1st/2nd down stuff is going bad, so self-scouting yourself in those spots can be helpful. If you are a heavy running team you can almost eliminate 3rd+longs completely.

As far as what to do, you either need your first progression to be 1v1 isolation, or to something capable of getting separation from 2 defenders past the first down marker. Isolation either comes down to scouting, or having another play running past him downfield to take the safety. If you need to separate from 2 people you are normally taking 90 cuts, or maybe 45 degree cuts, which it can be tough to have time for 7+ yards downfield. Choice screens can counter some blitzing. If you are throwing tons of INTs on 3rd+long, screening it out to protect the football is an option but I don't love it.

I've had among the top passing offenses in WL for a few recent seasons, but last season my 3rd-long conversion percentage was still not something I ever felt good about. The key is trying thing and maybe finding plays that work. If your QB is throwing well short of the 1st down marker that is either a QB tactic, or more likely OC problem as those are wasted plays. Scrims actually work pretty well for 3rd+long because normally DC's have the correct plays in there regardless of tagging, so testing some plays and running a gauntlet of scrims vs high quality teams can help.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Originally posted by ClutchDreams

Is there a specific strategy that you use for 3rd down passing progressions?

3rd-and-long passing is hard at high levels. GLB isn't in a great spot for the passing game currently. Then you have INT secondaries that can luckbox ruin your day. Then you have heavy blitz teams that can make your QB eat dirt.

You need to avoid 3rd-and-long as much as possible. If you are having a ton of 3rd and long attempts it means your 1st/2nd down stuff is going bad, so self-scouting yourself in those spots can be helpful. If you are a heavy running team you can almost eliminate 3rd+longs completely.

As far as what to do, you either need your first progression to be 1v1 isolation, or to something capable of getting separation from 2 defenders past the first down marker. Isolation either comes down to scouting, or having another play running past him downfield to take the safety. If you need to separate from 2 people you are normally taking 90 cuts, or maybe 45 degree cuts, which it can be tough to have time for 7+ yards downfield. Choice screens can counter some blitzing. If you are throwing tons of INTs on 3rd+long, screening it out to protect the football is an option but I don't love it.

I've had among the top passing offenses in WL for a few recent seasons, but last season my 3rd-long conversion percentage was still not something I ever felt good about. The key is trying thing and maybe finding plays that work. If your QB is throwing well short of the 1st down marker that is either a QB tactic, or more likely OC problem as those are wasted plays. Scrims actually work pretty well for 3rd+long because normally DC's have the correct plays in there regardless of tagging, so testing some plays and running a gauntlet of scrims vs high quality teams can help.

having TE's and WR's that can fake their way open helps too

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
3rd-and-long passing is hard at high levels. GLB isn't in a great spot for the passing game currently. Then you have INT secondaries that can luckbox ruin your day. Then you have heavy blitz teams that can make your QB eat dirt.

You need to avoid 3rd-and-long as much as possible. If you are having a ton of 3rd and long attempts it means your 1st/2nd down stuff is going bad, so self-scouting yourself in those spots can be helpful. If you are a heavy running team you can almost eliminate 3rd+longs completely.

As far as what to do, you either need your first progression to be 1v1 isolation, or to something capable of getting separation from 2 defenders past the first down marker. Isolation either comes down to scouting, or having another play running past him downfield to take the safety. If you need to separate from 2 people you are normally taking 90 cuts, or maybe 45 degree cuts, which it can be tough to have time for 7+ yards downfield. Choice screens can counter some blitzing. If you are throwing tons of INTs on 3rd+long, screening it out to protect the football is an option but I don't love it.

I've had among the top passing offenses in WL for a few recent seasons, but last season my 3rd-long conversion percentage was still not something I ever felt good about. The key is trying thing and maybe finding plays that work. If your QB is throwing well short of the 1st down marker that is either a QB tactic, or more likely OC problem as those are wasted plays. Scrims actually work pretty well for 3rd+long because normally DC's have the correct plays in there regardless of tagging, so testing some plays and running a gauntlet of scrims vs high quality teams can help.

ok, thanks!
I'm curious though, is there a benefit to having a pass heavy offense?

Originally posted by reddogrw
having TE's and WR's that can fake their way open helps too

Do possession WR's work well too? What's the best way to utilize one?

Gm over sent from both my teams thanks for the oia

Just for the record, I still find it unbelievable that when I offered you my OAI you accused my via PM of wanting GM/OC access to your lolminors teams so I could sabotage it's future game against some lolminors lolGM I have.

Originally posted by ClutchDreams
ok, thanks!
I'm curious though, is there a benefit to having a pass heavy offense?

What is your definition of pass heavy? my teams that were among WL's leaders in passing were both at around 52% pass/48% run at seasons end. That is pass heavy relative to the rest of GLB in WL, but compared to the NFL it is not of course.

If your team averages more yards-per-play through the air, it can be helpful to pass the ball. In the end all the matters is making the most of each of your plays and scoring the most points while having the fewest punts/turnovers. Simple. Passing is inherently more risky especially in this game, and that is part of why bort can go fuck himself for this being the "out of beta" stable sim.

Against top run D's you probably cant run unless you have an incredibly strong rushing attack. So passing can be better than averaging 2.3 ypc. It all depends on your teams strengths. In general there is more control and more things you can do as an OC via the passing game. The run game a lot of it is dots. Sure play choice matters, and sure you can do stuff to force defenses that are tagged (tag-countering) but a lot of it is just dots. This is why the strongest teams in GLB are the network teams who tend to be very run heavy and have the best blocking dots so they can just run all day. You aren't going to find entire olines of premium anti-moral o-linemen in free-agency like DS has at their disposal.

Originally posted by ClutchDreams
Do possession WR's work well too? What's the best way to utilize one?

Isolate them downfield. A lot of possession recievers are just slow speed recievers that do nothing well and are crappy, but if you have one that actually has an elevated catch score, it's just about shielding safeties with other WRs and throwing to him 1v1. The mistake a lot of people make is running short routes with slow possession recievers. You need him to get some distance on his route downfield because 3 yard completions even at 100% help no one when you want at least like 6.5 ypa for a healthy pass offense.

Originally posted by Stairwayto7
Gm over sent from both my teams thanks for the oia

I put it on one. Move it to the 2nd team yourself. And you are welcome.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I put it on one. Move it to the 2nd team yourself. And you are welcome.

Thanks so much

thanks wise

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN

Just for the record, I still find it unbelievable that when I offered you my OAI you accused my via PM of wanting GM/OC access to your lolminors teams so I could sabotage it's future game against some lolminors lolGM I have.

What is your definition of pass heavy? my teams that were among WL's leaders in passing were both at around 52% pass/48% run at seasons end. That is pass heavy relative to the rest of GLB in WL, but compared to the NFL it is not of course.

If your team averages more yards-per-play through the air, it can be helpful to pass the ball. In the end all the matters is making the most of each of your plays and scoring the most points while having the fewest punts/turnovers. Simple. Passing is inherently more risky especially in this game, and that is part of why bort can go fuck himself for this being the "out of beta" stable sim.

Against top run D's you probably cant run unless you have an incredibly strong rushing attack. So passing can be better than averaging 2.3 ypc. It all depends on your teams strengths. In general there is more control and more things you can do as an OC via the passing game. The run game a lot of it is dots. Sure play choice matters, and sure you can do stuff to force defenses that are tagged (tag-countering) but a lot of it is just dots. This is why the strongest teams in GLB are the network teams who tend to be very run heavy and have the best blocking dots so they can just run all day. You aren't going to find entire olines of premium anti-moral o-linemen in free-agency like DS has at their disposal.

Isolate them downfield. A lot of possession recievers are just slow speed recievers that do nothing well and are crappy, but if you have one that actually has an elevated catch score, it's just about shielding safeties with other WRs and throwing to him 1v1. The mistake a lot of people make is running short routes with slow possession recievers. You need him to get some distance on his route downfield because 3 yard completions even at 100% help no one when you want at least like 6.5 ypa for a healthy pass offense.
The more I think about it the more I facepalm myself for saying that due to how ridiculous it is.

Makes sense. From an educated guess the WL DC's probably all defend the run well.

Would you mind elaborating on the "In general there is more control and more things you can do as an OC via the passing game."?
Also, are there any tricks to fool the defense for screens? I've been trying out screen here and there and it seems as if they only work in the low level, most of not all of them stop working after a bit. Maybe there's a setup that counters DCs' plays?
Edit: the tactic settings don't really affect screens do they? Is there a reliable way to calculate the tactic settings for QB pass priority/passing type?

There are some patterns that simply run well without setting progressions at all - use your scrims to test. There are many patterns that are great for WRs, but imo, there are a lot more for TEs and backs. As wise says,, the key to WR passing is scouting the finding the one on one match ups.

Originally posted by AlBarsch
There are some patterns that simply run well without setting progressions at all - use your scrims to test. There are many patterns that are great for WRs, but imo, there are a lot more for TEs and backs. As wise says,, the key to WR passing is scouting the finding the one on one match ups.

One on one matchups and builds, granted if we're talking before regional pro passing is shitty anyway for the most part.

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

The more I think about it the more I facepalm myself for saying that due to how ridiculous it is.

Makes sense. From an educated guess the WL DC's probably all defend the run well.

Would you mind elaborating on the "In general there is more control and more things you can do as an OC via the passing game."?
Also, are there any tricks to fool the defense for screens? I've been trying out screen here and there and it seems as if they only work in the low level, most of not all of them stop working after a bit. Maybe there's a setup that counters DCs' plays?
Edit: the tactic settings don't really affect screens do they? Is there a reliable way to calculate the tactic settings for QB pass priority/passing type?

Screens should be viewed as a direct counter to blitzing, even if then (I got insta-sacked like 5x by the DT on screens today fml). Spamming them and expecting them to work is fools gold. In general I don't use them in my gameplan so I'm the wrong guy to ask.

I can't really elaborate as 'how to pass the ball' is a bit beyond the scope of this thread. On offense you choose what routes to run, what your progressions are, and what defender is being attacked = control. If your pass protection is poor you can run shorter routes. If you have particular players that are good, you can exclusively target them = control.

Originally posted by AlBarsch
There are some patterns that simply run well without setting progressions at all - use your scrims to test. There are many patterns that are great for WRs, but imo, there are a lot more for TEs and backs. As wise says,, the key to WR passing is scouting the finding the one on one match ups.

I really don't like this. Bort sucks at GLB and all that happens when you don't set progressions is whatever the default progression crazy bort made is, will happen. You are better at bort when it comes to progressions, and when looking at your own plays it helps to know where the QB should be looking.

Originally posted by AlBarsch
There are some patterns that simply run well without setting progressions at all - use your scrims to test. There are many patterns that are great for WRs, but imo, there are a lot more for TEs and backs. As wise says,, the key to WR passing is scouting the finding the one on one match ups.
Will do, thanks!
Originally posted by DarkRogue
One on one matchups and builds, granted if we're talking before regional pro passing is shitty anyway for the most part.
Dangit, lol. Is there any passing that works in the mid levels?
Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Screens should be viewed as a direct counter to blitzing, even if then (I got insta-sacked like 5x by the DT on screens today fml). Spamming them and expecting them to work is fools gold. In general I don't use them in my gameplan so I'm the wrong guy to ask.

I can't really elaborate as 'how to pass the ball' is a bit beyond the scope of this thread. On offense you choose what routes to run, what your progressions are, and what defender is being attacked = control. If your pass protection is poor you can run shorter routes. If you have particular players that are good, you can exclusively target them = control.

Sounds good to me. I see that "glitch" happen a lot. I'll probably stay away from those until I find something lol.

Originally posted by ClutchDreams
Sounds good to me. I see that "glitch" happen a lot. I'll probably stay away from those until I find something lol.



it has a lot to do with QB speed and something to do with blocking, and something to do with the DT. I just found it surprising as it happened to a QB that it didn't happen to in two previous WL seasons.