Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jjet5552007
They actually went ahead and nerfed blocking on current Vet players and under you just cant see what was changed.
"Sim will treat blocking skill values as a rebalanced lower level based on amount of extra SP currently in player build, in order to account for recent blocking SP value changes and differences between existing players and new. Effect will be scaled each season in order to "ease" into it as players retire and are replaced."

Again, where are we seeing that his has only hurt balanced offenses? Passing and Running both were nerfed to a degree, you are going to see a lower production across the board.

Like I said the only thing this new patch has done is to ensure blocking in general goes down the drain. It needs to be changed or just put back to the way it was.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Again, where are we seeing that his has only hurt balanced offenses? Passing and Running both were nerfed to a degree, you are going to see a lower production across the board.

This is try however balanced oline were already looking at lower caps right because of investing in more then specialized ? Unless you abuse the Sim as a lot of teams do and just build run block oline and pass from that just as well as a balanced oline

It almost does really suck but combing both powers into a leverage stat because that's basically all it is on both, would balance it out a little. Awr is seeing different things and techs are different skill sets as well. But power is just leverage.

Originally posted by Zaranthuul
This is try however balanced oline were already looking at lower caps right because of investing in more then specialized ? Unless you abuse the Sim as a lot of teams do and just build run block oline and pass from that just as well as a balanced oline

It almost does really suck but combing both powers into a leverage stat because that's basically all it is on both, would balance it out a little. Awr is seeing different things and techs are different skill sets as well. But power is just leverage.

How is passing blocking with a Run Focused offensive line abusing the sim?

Originally posted by Parab00n
How is passing blocking with a Run Focused offensive line abusing the sim?

Because of how the Sim is designed they can do it just as well as a balanced oline or better. A PR dline should insta gib those oline because they don't invest in any pass protection and the qb shouldnt even have a chance to throw the ball. But that's not what happens is it? Can they hold blocks for 5 tics? No not really but with how qb timing and play selection make it work all they need is what 2-3 tics? With base line pass protection stats no skill expense at all.

Originally posted by Zaranthuul
Because of how the Sim is designed they can do it just as well as a balanced oline or better. A PR dline should insta gib those oline because they don't invest in any pass protection and the qb shouldnt even have a chance to throw the ball. But that's not what happens is it? Can they hold blocks for 5 tics? No not really but with how qb timing and play selection make it work all they need is what 2-3 tics? With base line pass protection stats no skill expense at all.

That's not abusing the system, just like it's not abusing the system when I rush with my Pass blocking OL. When I throw a pass with DD 2.0, a offensive line like you are describing, I have about 3 plays in the entire playbook that works for me because I have to throw it so fast. That's the penalty I pay for veyr little investment into pass blocking skills.

Originally posted by Parab00n
That's not abusing the system, just like it's not abusing the system when I rush with my Pass blocking OL. When I throw a pass with DD 2.0, a offensive line like you are describing, I have about 3 plays in the entire playbook that works for me because I have to throw it so fast. That's the penalty I pay for veyr little investment into pass blocking skills.

That's the thing. There should be 0 plays. And I know teams who use more then 3 pass plays with an oline that has 0 investment in pass protection. If you can succeed at doing something without the proper investment because the sim won't allow them to be insta gib (0 pass investment oline vs 80+tech/or power pass rush specialist should be instant pancake and hurry presence on qb if DT) that's abusing a flaw in design. You shouldn't be able to pass or run with no investment.

Either way this is slightly off topic of the fixing issue atm. As that's a totally different issue dealing with the sim. Presently to build a true balance lineman you are double nerfed. Because you are nerfed on pass block and run block skills. You already spend more skill points to be balanced then a pure team and use lower caps and now it is compounded. This change did not bring them inline but further separated them.

The way I see it, every roughly 10 point investment difference (weighted properly for all the stats/metrics involved, including energy and morale) should be about 10% favor to the opposing line. Whatever formulas behind the scenes should be adjusted to fall on this line.

100-0 OL Favor (OL has on average 50 points higher overall)
90-10 OL Favor
80-20 OL Favor
70-30 OL Favor
60-40 OL Favor
50-50 Even Match
40-60 DL Favor
30-70 DL Favor
20-80 DL Favor
10-90 DL Favor
0-100 DL Favor (DL has on average 50 points higher overall)

For example, an OL with 15% higher traits at 75% of the energy and morale of the DL facing him will likely perform at the same level or worse because those factor into the equation as well.

Just my $0.02 on the subject.

Originally posted by Zaranthuul
That's the thing. There should be 0 plays. And I know teams who use more then 3 pass plays with an oline that has 0 investment in pass protection. If you can succeed at doing something without the proper investment because the sim won't allow them to be insta gib (0 pass investment oline vs 80+tech/or power pass rush specialist should be instant pancake and hurry presence on qb if DT) that's abusing a flaw in design. You shouldn't be able to pass or run with no investment.

Either way this is slightly off topic of the fixing issue atm. As that's a totally different issue dealing with the sim. Presently to build a true balance lineman you are double nerfed. Because you are nerfed on pass block and run block skills. You already spend more skill points to be balanced then a pure team and use lower caps and now it is compounded. This change did not bring them inline but further separated them.

That doesn't even make sense, you want a DT/DE to be able to warp to the backfield just because an Offensive lineman doesn't have high Pass blocking? Should the QB snap the ball and the Offensive lineman just lay down on the ground without even trying?


EDIT: Just because a DE has 90 in Pass Rushing Technique doesn't mean he is going to roll a 90, he may very well roll a 45 and my LOT with 50 Pass blocking Technique may actually win that roll.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Again, where are we seeing that his has only hurt balanced offenses? Passing and Running both were nerfed to a degree, you are going to see a lower production across the board.

Oh i wasnt saying that it ONLY hurt balanced, but it would seem to hurt them a little more being they will have points invested in all of the blocking skills. Just was showing that they have nerfed all the blocking skills this season.

Originally posted by Parab00n


EDIT: Just because a DE has 90 in Pass Rushing Technique doesn't mean he is going to roll a 90, he may very well roll a 45 and my LOT with 50 Pass blocking Technique may actually win that roll.

Not talking about oline that actually spent points - never was. So where you going with this?

Conversation you and I had was in relation to run block oline who do NOT invest in pass block skills and still are effective enough to pass.

Originally posted by Parab00n
That doesn't even make sense, you want a DT/DE to be able to warp to the backfield just because an Offensive lineman doesn't have high Pass blocking? Should the QB snap the ball and the Offensive lineman just lay down on the ground without even trying?


EDIT: Just because a DE has 90 in Pass Rushing Technique doesn't mean he is going to roll a 90, he may very well roll a 45 and my LOT with 50 Pass blocking Technique may actually win that roll.

50 is a investment, I think he means guys with like 20

I don't know how Bort programs it but it cant be that complicated. Block tech pass or rush should give you a chance equal to the level of the tech to make a successful block engagement. Then you're blocking power should determine how long you can hold it before getting pancaked or knocked to the side. No if you have 75 pass block tech then you should have a 75% chance to block before modifiers. So, great you blocked but that defensive tackle with 80 power dwarfs yours at 60 so you're not going to be able to block him for very long and its going to kill your stamina to do it. Verdict? about a 2 second block with big loss of energy and morale just like real life. It just another reason why O-line should only have one power stat with how ungodly expensive it is to build up blocking tech now.