Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Xars
There are many reasons Offense is overpowered vs Defense. The limited ability to run a varied play-calling Defense using Man (which is 99.9% of the player base) contributes to the overall problem. It's a HUGE issue.

It's The issue.

(Very clear explanation of the issue, by the way)

Wait, I seem to be under a different assumption for how the Tactics work than most of the users here.

I've always thought the Tactics were mislabeled. Short/Medium/Long has nothing to do with whether it's a passing play or not.

It's Play Type: Short, Medium, or Long. If it's 100% Short, that then eliminates the Medium and Long plays from being called. Then it checks Inside/Outside run preferences. If it's 100% Inside, then the only plays that get eliminated from selection are the Outside ones. Your average defensive play can still be called, since they qualify for both Inside and Outside. Then it checks Zone, and then Blitz.

The only way to get Middle Overload used 100% of the time when you want it, is to have it be the only Short Inside or Short Run/Pass defensive play in the playbook. If you toss in Medium plays as the only other play in playbook, such as Cover 2 Man Under, then you're fine. But if you have Shallow Sam Blitz, it will still compete with Middle Overload because it still qualifies as a Short play type and Inside run D.

Originally posted by peeti
Uhm, no. Lol

Are you sure? I've always thought it worked the same way Galactic describes it. In Paraboon's case, it makes sense that Man QB Spy 1 got called because he had Short Pass 100% and Inside Run 100%, which means it was 50/50 on whether it'd used a Short Pass play (Man QB Spy 1) or an Inside Run play (Middle Overload). The blitz 100% was irrelevant the moment Short Pass won the first roll. There's only one short pass play, and it wasn't a blitz. Middle Overload had already been filtered out in those cases. That middle overload's description includes "short" does seem irrelevant to me.

If you put >100% between short/med/long/inside/outside, it just normalizes the numbers to fit a 100% scale.

There might be some merit to color coding the background behind the columns that work together to provide a single filter. As it is, there's really 5 filters for any given defensive play. The #WRs is really a double filter too. It chooses the section of the playbook, and also dictates which plays from that playbook are eligible. If you want to run a 3WR defense play in your 2WR playbook, you can't have other 2WR plays in that playbook or it'll never call the 3WR play.

I think they're in this order:

1. #WRs - filters section of playbook that gets used. Tricky part is, it also filters the plays in that section. If you've got a 2 WR play, and a 3WR play in your 2WR playbook, that 3WR play will never get called.
2. Down and Distance - dictates which row from your tactics gets used.
3. Short/Med/Long/Inside/Outside - filters plays based on dice roll against these values. It will pick one of the 5 based on your settings in tactics.
4. Zone% - Will chose zone plays from remaining options at this rate. If no zone plays available, skip.
5. Blitz% - Will choose blitzes from remaining options. if no blitzes available, skip.

Originally posted by Galithor
Are you sure? I've always thought it worked the same way Galactic describes it. In Paraboon's case, it makes sense that Man QB Spy 1 got called because he had Short Pass 100% and Inside Run 100%, which means it was 50/50 on whether it'd used a Short Pass play (Man QB Spy 1) or an Inside Run play (Middle Overload). The blitz 100% was irrelevant the moment Short Pass won the first roll. There's only one short pass play, and it wasn't a blitz. Middle Overload had already been filtered out in those cases. That middle overload's description includes "short" does seem irrelevant to me.

If you put >100% between short/med/long/inside/outside, it just normalizes the numbers to fit a 100% scale.

There might be some merit to color coding the background behind the columns that work together to provide a single filter. As it is, there's really 5 filters for any given defensive play. The #WRs is really a double filter too. It chooses the section of the playbook, and also dictates which plays from that playbook are eligible. If you want to run a 3WR defense play in your 2WR playbook, you can't have other 2WR plays in that playbook or it'll never call the 3WR play.

I think they're in this order:

1. #WRs - filters section of playbook that gets used. Tricky part is, it also filters the plays in that section. If you've got a 2 WR play, and a 3WR play in your 2WR playbook, that 3WR play will never get called.
2. Down and Distance - dictates which row from your tactics gets used.
3. Short/Med/Long/Inside/Outside - filters plays based on dice roll against these values. It will pick one of the 5 based on your settings in tactics.
4. Zone% - Will chose zone plays from remaining options at this rate. If no zone plays available, skip.
5. Blitz% - Will choose blitzes from remaining options. if no blitzes available, skip.

At to point #1, it's incorrect (I believe). I thought so too for a long time. The issue is Pass Distance. Defense "tagging" to a certain # of WR doesn't exist. I've mixed Nickel, Dime and Quarter into 3WR set Defense, and they've all been called. At least, I don't believe so after many, many games. (I could always be wrong. Usually I just run one D for Pass Short/ one for Pass Medium/ etc.)

2. Correct

3. Correct and not correct. A post from Rob illustrated the problem. If you just have ZEB and MO in the play book and you go 50 Pass Short, 50 Inside Run, 100 Blitz - you don't get 50/50 mix of ZEB-MO. Because ZEB is a Run AND a Pass it can fire even when the Inside Run is "rolled". But MO will never be called by any of the "50 rolls" in Pass Short.

4. Correct

5. Correct

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Wait, I seem to be under a different assumption for how the Tactics work than most of the users here.

I've always thought the Tactics were mislabeled. Short/Medium/Long has nothing to do with whether it's a passing play or not.



Correct. In the Tactics Matrix, YOU set the variables for what you consider Short/Med/Long and then pick plays from there.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
It's Play Type: Short, Medium, or Long. If it's 100% Short, that then eliminates the Medium and Long plays from being called.

This is correct.



Originally posted by Absolut Zero
If it's 100% Inside, then the only plays that get eliminated from selection are the Outside ones. Your average defensive play can still be called, since they qualify for both Inside and Outside. Then it checks Zone, and then Blitz.



Incorrect in that if you do Pass and then you do Inside/Outside. Better way to explain is this:

First call on Tactics: Pass Short - Pass Medium - Pass Long - Inside Run - Outside Run

As Gal said above, these are normalized to 100%.

So you if mean that it looks like this, then you're incorrect:

First call on Tactics: Pass Short - Pass Medium - Pass Long
Second call on Tactics (DEPENDENT VARIABLE from above): Inside Run - Outside Run

This is the *subset* argument I made. Direction should be a subset of distance, but it's not. Direction AND Distance are on the same hierarchy. I wish they weren't.

I thought I understood the tactics, but i guess I didnt^^

If I have 2 plays for one WR set, one is a pure short Inside Run and the other is a short run/pass then I would get the follwing or not?

100% Short, rest 0% : Only the short run/pass play woould be called
100% Inside Run, rest 0%: Both will get called equally. true?

Originally posted by peeti
I thought I understood the tactics, but i guess I didnt^^

If I have 2 plays for one WR set, one is a pure short Inside Run and the other is a short run/pass then I would get the follwing or not?

100% Short, rest 0% : Only the short run/pass play woould be called
100% Inside Run, rest 0%: Both will get called equally. true?

What Xars is saying about how the pass/run defensive plays work would make this true.

Sounds reasonable to me that Xars is probably right on that point too.

In any event, the playbooks and tactics certainly could use some UI love to help folks better understand them.

Well I always used it that way for seasons now, but Xars words rather confused me^^

Bort needs to do a Q&A like he used to in GLB 1 so the userbase can clear some of this shit up.

Originally posted by peeti
I thought I understood the tactics, but i guess I didnt^^

If I have 2 plays for one WR set, one is a pure short Inside Run and the other is a short run/pass then I would get the follwing or not?

100% Short, rest 0% : Only the short run/pass play woould be called
100% Inside Run, rest 0%: Both will get called equally. true?

I don't think so. It's definitely how I understand it, except it doesn't always work. I've had Medium and Long pass plays get called with exactly these settings (not the same playbook set-up obviously). but the most important thing (that does my head in) is that Inside Runs are classified as Blitzes so you need something in the blitz column to get them to fire. Now factor in the possibility that you want some Pass/Run blitzing in your playbook too... You've really screwed things up now.

With 100 Inside run, coupled to any number in the Blitz column, any one of the 3 plays in our imaginary playbook can be called, and you have to have a number in the blitz column to get the Inside run to fire, which is presumably what you favour as the DC because you've set the playcall to 100% Inside Run.

Like peeti, I thought I had it figured out. I'll change up some of my tactics settings to see if I was wrong.

What if you set everything to 0, except for blitz and zone to 50 like Stobie said? Does it just check for a play based on formation first, disregarding all distance & run, and only check for zone or blitz?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
What if you set everything to 0, except for blitz and zone to 50 like Stobie said? Does it just check for a play based on formation first, disregarding all distance & run, and only check for zone or blitz?

Good question. Worth testing.

I'm bumping this in the hope Corndog sees this with a new season approaching:

I'm not so much as asking for new Defensive Plays, but rather to have some existing plays re-categorized.

Cdog, what I'd like to see is this:

For each Defensive Formation to include the following:

Pass Short - 3+ plays
Pass Medium - 3+ plays
Pass Long - 1+ plays

Pass Short Blitz - 2+ plays
Pass Medium Blitz - 2+ plays
Pass Long Blitz - 1+ plays

Inside Run - 2+ plays
Outside Run - 2+ plays

I'd like all Pass/Run plays to be re-categorized as only Pass plays (with a distance attached to them).

That way all Inside Run and Outside Run plays are in their own category and don't have crossover from the Pass/Run plays.

In essence what this really does is allow the DC to play appropriate Down & Distance which is usually what he wants to do. Sometimes, you want to commit to a direction.

If you remove Pass and Run, the above system becomes this:

Down and Distance
Short (w/Blitz)
Medium (w/Blitz)
Long (w/Blitz)

Direction
Inside (w/Blitz)
Outside (w/Blitz)

Add Blitzes to the above and you have the Tactics Matrix as it actually works. No coding overhaul is needed. Just switch the categories each play is allocated to.

If you can follow this template, you will greatly improve Defensive Play Calling. This will give DCs a role in the game (something you and Bort have said you want). To do that, we need options.

Thank you.

I'm torn... More defensive control.... Have to re-do all my tactics...