Warrior General Games

yeah there was/are alot of pure rushing teams, but yours is def the strongest built and best coached

my point is just at this point in the game when you have already easily hit all of your run blocking and rushing stats, no defense who has to build to cover the passing attack of a team like CCM or drinkin then can also try and compete with those kind of elite one dimensional rushing stats. i just think there needs to be a small tweak to help balance. adj the broken tackles behind the line of scrimmage, no power through proc behind the line of scrimmage, maybe another tweak to the morale, etc.

will be interesting to see how it works out when we spend a full seasons worth of points in run defense stats on our d because irish has already put up a 10k flex point bounty on txsteves head, haha

The problem is not the run or the pass being too strong. It's the defense being too weak.

I gotta disagree there madden. The power back needs to be toned down. I don't mind breaking 2 and 3 tackles at full stride, that's fine. But when they've just received the ball they shouldn't be breaking any tackles. Not to mention breaking 2 and 3 tackles in a gang tackle situation. If a player is being slowed by someone hanging on, no way they should be able to break the 2nd player in's tackle. The plays of the week are full of silly situations like this.

GG Goons - that one could have gone either way I think, and it went yours.

GL in the final - you are going to need boatloads.

Originally posted by bigb4486
I gotta disagree there madden. The power back needs to be toned down. I don't mind breaking 2 and 3 tackles at full stride, that's fine. But when they've just received the ball they shouldn't be breaking any tackles. Not to mention breaking 2 and 3 tackles in a gang tackle situation. If a player is being slowed by someone hanging on, no way they should be able to break the 2nd player in's tackle. The plays of the week are full of silly situations like this.

by that rationale - it should be impossible for a WR to catch a ball when double or triple covered. But that wouldn't make sense would it? The game is built around the idea that there are occasionally super human plays.

The one play linked by Mez was pretty sick - something like 4 tackles broken by my power back with 100 power running. It was also unusual though - there weren't very many plays like that in the game. All together we broke 35 tackles --- coincidentally the exact same # of tackles that the Goons broke against you guys earlier this season.

Do defenses need to be buffed? It is very possible and there have been lots of threads on the main forums where I've agreed that might be the balance that is needed. We can be certain (I believe) that Mr. Reliable will be nerfed this offseason (reduced balance and carry grip bonus or something) -- and we can be certain that Shed Block will get a good buff (based on Corndog statements). Both will reduce the effectiveness of the run to some degree. There are lots of other changes coming as well - but I don't know what they are. I don't know what the 'cooldown' period is for Power Through - but I would agree with Mez that might need to be looked at and lengthened.

I think the pass game is awfully hard to stop as well though - so I don't see nerfing the running game without also bringing some balance to the passing game. Look at Air Raid as a solid example of the opposite of the Stunners.

In terms of offensive output - Stunners have been held this season to 17, 21, 31, 48 (<-MMA I think).

Air Raids lowest offensive output was 35 points -- and they've run the exact same offense every game this season (I believe). People know what they are going to do -- and they can't stop it.

Originally posted by Sov88
all of our LBs and DE/D-line have around 60+ tackling/grip and the other necessary supporting stats for tackling power rushers.

I hear what you're saying here - but let's look at the flip side. If I were posting "my CB's have 60+ man aware and coverage tech and the other necessary supporting stats for pass coverage and we are still getting beat by the pass" - I would be laughed at.

As one of you guys said - building to stop an extreme rushing offense is not something that can be fixed over the course of the pro season -- I would guess it takes 2+ seasons worth of points being put exclusively in run stopping skills for D line and LB's (and some secondary). Beyond that though - I've heard from other team owners who's builds were simply going to be gimped as their tackling skills maxed out in the 50 range. Even capped - those guys aren't going to be able to stop the run (just like a Cb with 50 coverage skills won't be able to stop the pass). (is it possible LB's and D Line need adjustments made to their tackling caps? I definitely think that could be possible - mine all cap in the 65-85 range now and I've used cap boosters there).


Anyway - wall of text alert... I do believe defense needs to be balanced out some how (buffed). I just think it is a mistake to say only the running game is overpowered...the passing game is overpowered as well. The problem is -- to nerf the all run game (stunners) and the all pass game (Air Raid) will make things even tougher on the balanced teams who try to do both -- they will both take a large hit as well to their effectiveness. That is a basic game issue/flaw -- and one that very often exists in mmo's -- extreme builds and tactics tend to be strong.


Those are just my honest thoughts though. Again - you guys are a great team -- nothing but respect from me.

Close game Goons - your blitz put a serious dent in our passing game.

gl to you guys.

Originally posted by TxSteve
I hear what you're saying here - but let's look at the flip side. If I were posting "my CB's have 60+ man aware and coverage tech and the other necessary supporting stats for pass coverage and we are still getting beat by the pass" - I would be laughed at.

As one of you guys said - building to stop an extreme rushing offense is not something that can be fixed over the course of the pro season -- I would guess it takes 2+ seasons worth of points being put exclusively in run stopping skills for D line and LB's (and some secondary). Beyond that though - I've heard from other team owners who's builds were simply going to be gimped as their tackling skills maxed out in the 50 range. Even capped - those guys aren't going to be able to stop the run (just like a Cb with 50 coverage skills won't be able to stop the pass). (is it possible LB's and D Line need adjustments made to their tackling caps? I definitely think that could be possible - mine all cap in the 65-85 range now and I've used cap boosters there).


well that is what i mean, as far as caps go to compete with the elite passing teams, you need certain caps on your players, it is near impossible to also have the proper caps to then compete with an elite running team, let alone hit all those caps. we actually have a very refined d core, we have 8-10ish dedicated "run stoppers" in positions like FS, SS, 2x CB, 4ish LB, DT, DE. prob is even a good hybrid run stop FS or CB has around a 40-45 tackling grip cap and even with great anti-run stats if you have tackling stats that are capped low, you are not going to be able to take down a 100 power rushing HB.

that is more of my issue, since the first game irish and mez basically put the team on a stand still and made all our d core work heavily on their tackling stats and anti run stats. its all theyve worked on all this season since that game. sure we can add this and we can that and add etc and etc, but if most of our d guys have already hit their caps in most of the important tackling stats, there is not really much that will change. if/when we remake we def will be adjusting our caps way more towards anti-rushing to avoid this in the future

anyway again gg and gl vs jersey, perfect matchup while this power rushing debate is ongoing lol

Originally posted by BadgerPhil
GG Goons - that one could have gone either way I think, and it went yours.

GL in the final - you are going to need boatloads.

GG. It almost did go yours at the end there. I got lucky.

Originally posted by glwarriors
Close game Goons - your blitz put a serious dent in our passing game.

gl to you guys.



GG man. Looks like it's 1 and done for the Goons. But I already knew that going in.

This is the Goons first play-off. Nice work Sonto.

Originally posted by TxSteve
by that rationale - it should be impossible for a WR to catch a ball when double or triple covered. But that wouldn't make sense would it? The game is built around the idea that there are occasionally super human plays.

The one play linked by Mez was pretty sick - something like 4 tackles broken by my power back with 100 power running. It was also unusual though - there weren't very many plays like that in the game. All together we broke 35 tackles --- coincidentally the exact same # of tackles that the Goons broke against you guys earlier this season.

Do defenses need to be buffed? It is very possible and there have been lots of threads on the main forums where I've agreed that might be the balance that is needed. We can be certain (I believe) that Mr. Reliable will be nerfed this offseason (reduced balance and carry grip bonus or something) -- and we can be certain that Shed Block will get a good buff (based on Corndog statements). Both will reduce the effectiveness of the run to some degree. There are lots of other changes coming as well - but I don't know what they are. I don't know what the 'cooldown' period is for Power Through - but I would agree with Mez that might need to be looked at and lengthened.

I think the pass game is awfully hard to stop as well though - so I don't see nerfing the running game without also bringing some balance to the passing game. Look at Air Raid as a solid example of the opposite of the Stunners.


Your argument here doesn't quite hold water. I'm not saying nerf a rushing offense, I'm saying nerf a particular build. Power backs. You say players should occasionally be super human, but well built power backs are regularly ripping off 50+ TD runs. Put Jimbo Jumpback on Orlando Warriors and they win 6-8 games. Put Mandy Ross on there, they are probably 0-14 still. Taking o-line out of the equation here, a good passing offensive needs at least 3 or 4 skill positions to function. You only need one power back to dominate. Your comparison was spot on, the Goons have done as well as they have because they lean on a power back (who isn't even a S* mind you!) to win them games.

Again, simply look at the plays of the week. How often do you see 50+ yard receptions? It's littered with power backs breaking multiple tackles and running 60 yards for a TD. Facing double and triple coverage a solitary S* receiver usually wont even get a target. When he does it's quite likely the ball will be batted, knocked loose, or failed to catch due to coverage. Yeah passing defense could be tightened up overall but when 2 and 3 people are getting to the player with the ball and still failing to make a play regularly, that's just ridiculous and needs to be fixed. No amount of morale loss should mean 3 people can't tackle a player who's at a standstill.

Originally posted by bigb4486

Your argument here doesn't quite hold water. I'm not saying nerf a rushing offense, I'm saying nerf a particular build. Power backs. You say players should occasionally be super human, but well built power backs are regularly ripping off 50+ TD runs. Put Jimbo Jumpback on Orlando Warriors and they win 6-8 games. Put Mandy Ross on there, they are probably 0-14 still. Taking o-line out of the equation here, a good passing offensive needs at least 3 or 4 skill positions to function. You only need one power back to dominate. Your comparison was spot on, the Goons have done as well as they have because they lean on a power back (who isn't even a S* mind you!) to win them games.

Again, simply look at the plays of the week. How often do you see 50+ yard receptions? It's littered with power backs breaking multiple tackles and running 60 yards for a TD. Facing double and triple coverage a solitary S* receiver usually wont even get a target. When he does it's quite likely the ball will be batted, knocked loose, or failed to catch due to coverage. Yeah passing defense could be tightened up overall but when 2 and 3 people are getting to the player with the ball and still failing to make a play regularly, that's just ridiculous and needs to be fixed. No amount of morale loss should mean 3 people can't tackle a player who's at a standstill.




Yea 100% agree with that statement.

Jimbo isn't a power back. He doesn't have power through or any power running buffing SA and his power running skill is about where you tackling skills are (ie: moderate to weak)

You must be mixed up or something.

Imani then. Doesnt matter, just shows the broken tackle factor of running backs is too much. There is nothing comparable in a passing offense. Any broken run play can be instantly turned into an 80 yard touchdown run with a missed tackle. You don't see that in a passing offense. Very rarely do you see the huge play from a passing team. Which is kind of backwards to what we are trying to simulate, dont you think?

Look at air raid's scoring plays from a gimme game.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/128937

Absolutely all of them are 5-15 yard catches at the end of a drive. In a GIMME game....

You don't see that from rushing teams. You don't need to sustain a drive when any run can suddenly be a touch down run.

I disagree. Powerbacks and star HB's are much easier to contain than star QB's and WR's. Then again, I guess it's easier for us to say this.