Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Stixx
I'm sure a good deal of people already are pretty heavily invested in a few that they have already talked about scaling back like Mr. Reliable and possibly Spin Cycle?

I don't think pass rushing needs to be nerfed in any way. He mentioned improving shed block though

This is a beta. There should be resets in cases where the game development dramatically changes the character builds. Remember, we're not volunteers, although agreeing to be beta testers by the moment we sign up, we're still customers with money invested.

As long as i can redistribute my points, i'll be okay with these changes.

Originally posted by mrm708
I don't think pass rushing needs to be nerfed in any way. He mentioned improving shed block though


Have to agree. On the higher level teams with EVEN quality teams playing it's almost impossible to get pressure on the QB without Spin Cycle from a DL... so If they were to nerf probably just need to turn all DL into run stop guys (if most aren't already heading that way).

Originally posted by Icky Thump

Have to agree. On the higher level teams with EVEN quality teams playing it's almost impossible to get pressure on the QB without Spin Cycle from a DL... so If they were to nerf probably just need to turn all DL into run stop guys (if most aren't already heading that way).



Personally I think both Shed Block and Second Wind need to be buffed in terms of SA.

There are a lot of changes that need to be made.

For instance, compare Slot Machine with First Step for WRs. Galithor is a huge proponent of First Step. I keep toying with taking Slot Machine for my S* WR Belgarion, but the math just isn't in its favor.

I'll compare Gold First Step vs. Gold Slot Machine.

First Step can fire more than once per play. Since the WR is standing still at the start of the play, FS can fire. Additionally, anytime the WR comes to a stop and then moves, FS can fire again. So FS can easily fire more than once per play.

Let's assume that FS can fire 1.2x per play on average. My all-pass team is averaging 65 plays per game. So that's 78 potential firings per game. FS can fire up to 50% of the time and it's powered by Quickness. Let's assume the WR gets to 70 Quickness at end build. FS will probably fire about 35% of the time; we'll call it one-third. If FS fires on one-third of the time, then it will fire 26 times per game.

Slot Machine fires on 3rd or 4th down for a WR in the WR3 position.

My all-pass team is averaging 12 third down plays per game. Slot Machine can fire up to 60% of the time. My WR Belgarion will hit 86 Receiving Consistency. Let's assume Slot Machine fires on 50% of the third downs. Since my WR Belgarion is always in WR3 and no other WR ever is, he'll generate 12 potential firings and therefore about 6 actual firings.

As nice as Slot Machine is, I can't justify going to Gold SA on Slot Machine over First Step and that is the choice.

My S* already has GOLD Prime Time planned, as he should with 86 Rec Consist, and GOLD Head Fake, as he should with 90+ Route Tech and 90+ Route Elusive planned. The final Gold SA choice is between Slot Machine and First Step.

Even with my projection of having higher Rec Consistency than Quickness in his final build, First Step is the SA to take. Even with much lower Quickness than the 70 I used in the above example, First Step is still the choice. That's the problem.

So I hope that Corndog looks not only at the value of a SA, but also the firing rate in terms of plays per game of impact.

My question: are bort/corndog getting any opinions on any players on these things? Sure - something like mr. reliable obviously needs some adjusting -- and something like shed block obviously needs some adjusting -- but other than that there are plenty of SA's that need tweaking (mostly up).

bort hasn't seemed to be involved here for months -- and corndogs attention has been largely focused on mighty brawlers for months (i think) - so yes - they know the maths behind all of the SA's --- but otherwise -- what are they basing the decisions on? I'm just not sure how much dotball either of them have watched/played in the last few months.

That's just one of the reasons I wish this was a discussion with them involved between now and seasons end -- rather than just a changelog announcement on day 3 of the offseason as we all scramble to understand the changes.

And I'm hoarding SA points as I believe you are. My S* QB has played 2/3 of Soph without any SA's. I respec'd him after last season and haven't spent on any SA.

Plus I think the current SA's for a dedicated passer stink.

Why do I need Quick Read when his hurry rate is the lowest of all Soph QBs in the (brief) history of GLB2?

Why do I need On the Run when his sack rate is the second lowest in GLB2 history? And how may SP am I going to spend in Pocket Awareness anyway to increase it's firing rate?

The game will continue to develop and the meta and builds will change as well. That's part of the fun.

But yes, there should be some discussion of SA changes rather than "here you go".

Originally posted by Xars
There are a lot of changes that need to be made.

For instance, compare Slot Machine with First Step for WRs. Galithor is a huge proponent of First Step. I keep toying with taking Slot Machine for my S* WR Belgarion, but the math just isn't in its favor.

I'll compare Gold First Step vs. Gold Slot Machine.

First Step can fire more than once per play. Since the WR is standing still at the start of the play, FS can fire. Additionally, anytime the WR comes to a stop and then moves, FS can fire again. So FS can easily fire more than once per play.

Let's assume that FS can fire 1.2x per play on average. My all-pass team is averaging 65 plays per game. So that's 78 potential firings per game. FS can fire up to 50% of the time and it's powered by Quickness. Let's assume the WR gets to 70 Quickness at end build. FS will probably fire about 35% of the time; we'll call it one-third. If FS fires on one-third of the time, then it will fire 26 times per game.

Slot Machine fires on 3rd or 4th down for a WR in the WR3 position.

My all-pass team is averaging 12 third down plays per game. Slot Machine can fire up to 60% of the time. My WR Belgarion will hit 86 Receiving Consistency. Let's assume Slot Machine fires on 50% of the third downs. Since my WR Belgarion is always in WR3 and no other WR ever is, he'll generate 12 potential firings and therefore about 6 actual firings.

As nice as Slot Machine is, I can't justify going to Gold SA on Slot Machine over First Step and that is the choice.

My S* already has GOLD Prime Time planned, as he should with 86 Rec Consist, and GOLD Head Fake, as he should with 90+ Route Tech and 90+ Route Elusive planned. The final Gold SA choice is between Slot Machine and First Step.

Even with my projection of having higher Rec Consistency than Quickness in his final build, First Step is the SA to take. Even with much lower Quickness than the 70 I used in the above example, First Step is still the choice. That's the problem.

So I hope that Corndog looks not only at the value of a SA, but also the firing rate in terms of plays per game of impact.



Good points, but one thing to consider is the importance in game dynamics of converting 3rd down that a skill point and roll bonus to 3rd down could inherently be more valuable than First Step firing on every play.

Originally posted by PS3
Good points, but one thing to consider is the importance in game dynamics of converting 3rd down that a skill point and roll bonus to 3rd down could inherently be more valuable than First Step firing on every play.

True, but those 6 Slot Machine firings will draw how many pass targets?

Even if he got half of the third down targets, that's only three plays per game.

At his catch rate of 66%, that's 2 catches per game.

My QB completion rate is already 66% without it, so while it would help, the overall effect is small for a Gold SA. I'm already going to convert 8 of those 12 attempts anyway, so what will it do? Add one more first down?

Having First Step fire on a screen pass or at the right moment on any other play, and your WR beats a defender and takes it to the house.

It's not about any improvement, it's about a worthwhile improvement.

Originally posted by TxSteve
That's just one of the reasons I wish this was a discussion with them involved between now and seasons end -- rather than just a changelog announcement on day 3 of the offseason as we all scramble to understand the changes.

As noble and reasonable as that sounds, it would just turn into people that like having an overpowered SA yelling at people that don't, and vice versa.

See: Every nerf discussion ever.

But yes, I do read the vast majority of posts.

Mr. Reliable seems fine to me, shed block needs the buff.

Stagnant game makes for a boring game corn

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Stagnant game makes for a boring game corn

Well, yeah, that's why I'm mixing stuff up by throwing shit at the wall with SAs this season.

Originally posted by Corndog
Well, yeah, that's why I'm mixing stuff up by throwing shit at the wall with SAs this season.

Preview of the new SA, "Apeshit"?