Warrior General Games

I'm sure if nothing else GLB could give up equity in a funding round to generate a big marketing budget to blow warriorgeneral to the next level.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Advertise during the Superbowl. It's chump change to Bort.

Seriously, advertise on Google.

the challenge there is: how many people are searching for "football rpg simulation" - or whatever....paying the adwords price for "football game" or things like that would be insanely high.

GLB1 spread by word of mouth if I recall -- there were posts on forums all over the internet. I'm sure that was driven by the excitement and newness of it -- but many of us here in GLB2 played GLB1 as well -- is isn't new to us, so the buzz isn't happening at a high rate.


as for ideas for spreading the word -- it seems to me that your social network efforts are pretty weak. As for simple things that could effective (just off the top of my head - some of these are awful)-

- Offer 100 flex for everyone who likes your facebook page
- Have a drawing on Facebook - everyone who has liked your page as of September 10th will be entered into a drawing. Winner of that drawing gets 10,000 flex
- I think twitter sucks -- but tweet something about the game - and offer 50 flex to everyone who re-tweets it
- Start a wiki or a blog -- which will both (in time) be more effective than adwords -- pay the user base some amount of flex per article written -- or pay some flex amount to people who write ladder crap...or league crap (this post is a great example of a user DRAMATICALLY adding to the user experience -- and he just does it for free: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5195421 )

I'll stop there -- but if you have no advertising budget...I get that -- but surely you can give flex away anyway you want -- for goodness sake - how many people still get a stipend who do NOTHING??

Well, Facebook likes don't amount to anything. We also already have like 12k "likes", I'd guess a large portion that don't play anymore, so no idea how a drawing would work for that without being able to compare Facebook accounts to GLB accounts.

I've thought of giving flex to people for doing writeups, but I mean, there has to be some kind of system. You can't just give flex any time somebody posts a rankings thread, that would be ridiculous. But then if you start giving one person flex for posting them, another person feels screwed because they didn't get flex for posting one (or are discouraged from doing it at all).

Maybe some kind of voting system or something? I have no idea. I'm not a community manager person or a PR/Marketing person. I write code. I read the forums because I legitimately care, not because I'm good at it or because it's my job, because neither of those are the case.

Warrior general has 12K likes -- and the posts on the WG page are stupid.

I would argue:

GLB2 should have its own page...brand new. It would of course have links to the Warrior General page -- and GLB1 page in the 'about' section.

Whoever runs your GLB2 page (is there anyone but you? I bet a mod would do it) - would need to post crap on there "Link to the August 15th Top 15 Journeyman Ladder thread" - or whatever.

I could write a lot more here - it isn't my profession but I've learned a lot about it for personal projects and things and stuff.

If you're interested in a "what would I do" write up - I'm happy to do it (for free) but don't see the point if you really don't care.


I think you're overthinking the "who gets flex for writing" thing. Do people get pissed that so and so was made a mod and now gets a stipend? I'm sure some do...but they get over it don't they? If I don't like that USC is getting flex for his posts - purely because Al Davis is his picture (which definitely does make me like him less) - I guess I'm free to write in his thread every week "can't believe you get flex for this" -- but so what -- the positives outweigh the negatives and as you already live --- no matter what you do you piss some group of very vocal people off.

Unlike, TxSteve, I more or less do this as my profession (albeit with manufacturers and not b2c). There are four buckets: acquisition, retention, upsell, and winback.

Acquisition is always your most costly and requires significant resources (time + money). That and winback is where I see the consistent efforts being needed. There needs to be defined strategies (from which the tactics will pour out of) for each of those four buckets.

At a tactical level, the most significant thing GLB could do in the realm of a zero dollars out of pocket cost is some sort of referral boost promotion. Heavily increase the incentive to go have your current customers bring their friends, coworkers, etc. here. The cost is some potential sales at the gain of acquisition (and therefore revenue potential). A healthy referral program would provide the opportunity for an exponential userbase gain. And of course you have the ability to end the program whenever you want.

I personally would not devote attention to paying for writeups/wiki/userguide type stuff. That's basically just retention, as those writeups or wiki pages are never going to significantly rank or generate external traffic.

Originally posted by TxSteve
I think you're overthinking the "who gets flex for writing" thing. Do people get pissed that so and so was made a mod and now gets a stipend? I'm sure some do...but they get over it don't they? If I don't like that USC is getting flex for his posts - purely because Al Davis is his picture (which definitely does make me like him less) - I guess I'm free to write in his thread every week "can't believe you get flex for this" -- but so what -- the positives outweigh the negatives and as you already live --- no matter what you do you piss some group of very vocal people off.




The issue wouldn't be giving USC flex - he does nice work, everyone agrees he does those threads well. The issue would be if you start giving out flex to him for doing write ups, you need to give flex to everyone who does write ups. And if people hear they get flex for write ups, then suddenly main would be flooded with 12 different rookie write up threads, some of which would be USC-level analysis, some would just be "I pick these 5 teams to win". If you give them ALL flex, then it just gets out of hand. If you pick and choose who gets flex, then you need to have some kind of standard of goodness, which people will complain about.
Mod choices are subjective, but in the end, mods have a clear job to do, and those who do it (move off topic threads, lock things that get out of hand, address things flagged by the report button) stay on, those who are bad at it (abusing power, never on, not doing much forum janitor-ing) are let go. Writing quality for top ten matchups doesn't have anywhere near as clear metrics, which leads to it getting problematic.

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust

I personally would not devote attention to paying for writeups/wiki/userguide type stuff. That's basically just retention, as those writeups or wiki pages are never going to significantly rank or generate external traffic.

just to be clear - I'm not jockeying for a position for myself. I don't even think I write "write ups" - I mostly just list the games which doesn't deserve any flex...and could be solved with a ladder ranking page.

But the forums being so DEAD is a big thing in my opinion -- the impression is that the game is dying. Is it? I'm not sure.

There has been a referral program from day one...has it been successful? I doubt it.

As for social media / focusing some attention on facebook -- that is FREE! It costs nothing. As for giving away Flex...that is free too -- much like "the first one is free" (exactly like they do with free players) - someone getting a few free flex to add another player or something can only be seen as a positive (hey, having flex is fun - it frees me up to do whatever I want - maybe I'll get more).

You didn't mention it - but the idea that Facebook can't generate external traffic with a free page and without using a single dollar is insane. It wasn't free - but let me just say "Candy Crush" -- you cringed in annoyance didn't you? Every time someone "likes" a page called "Goal Line Blitz 2 Football Simulation" -- everyone one of their friends has the chance to see that on their feed. Same with everytime someone likes a post on the "Goal Line Blitz 2 Football Simulation" page.

and it is FREE. A mod or someone else could spend 5 minutes a day or less keeping the facebook page active...

They could do give-aways

Corndog could do a weekly 15 minute Q&A session - everyone who commented in that facebook thread would serve as 'outreach' to all their own friends....etc



I'm sure you're professional marketing experience is stronger than mine. But mine has always operated on a shoe string budget - so I probably look at things differently.

Originally posted by pottsman
The issue wouldn't be giving USC flex - he does nice work, everyone agrees he does those threads well. The issue would be if you start giving out flex to him for doing write ups, you need to give flex to everyone who does write ups. And if people hear they get flex for write ups, then suddenly main would be flooded with 12 different rookie write up threads, some of which would be USC-level analysis, some would just be "I pick these 5 teams to win". If you give them ALL flex, then it just gets out of hand. If you pick and choose who gets flex, then you need to have some kind of standard of goodness, which people will complain about.
Mod choices are subjective, but in the end, mods have a clear job to do, and those who do it (move off topic threads, lock things that get out of hand, address things flagged by the report button) stay on, those who are bad at it (abusing power, never on, not doing much forum janitor-ing) are let go. Writing quality for top ten matchups doesn't have anywhere near as clear metrics, which leads to it getting problematic.

I agree USC does good work - that's why I picked him. He gives genuine effort - I also think Maddencoach does amazing work in Adams - his are hilarious...

But I disagree that a policy that pays flex for write ups means anyone who writes a write up gets paid. That is so silly. Does everyone who wants to be a mod get to be a mod? Of course not. I would suggest you start it as a trial - pick a rep from each tier - ask them if they are interested. Here are the rules:

USC: Your writing adds to the forum - we are grateful. Would you be interested in being the season 6 Pro ladder matchup writer? Do exactly what you do now. Same effort. Get the thread up by 9am ladder day. We'll get you on a stipend that drops X flex into your account every other day.

Cirop: Interested in doing Seasoned season 6?

etc. just make it a season long commitment agreement. IF it goes well - continue it. If it doesn't - find someone else. No good candidate? sorry - that tier loses out.


This idea that everything has to be fair and if USC gets flex for a write up (that he's done for a season or more for free) -- anyone who compiles a write up has to get the same amount of flex is absolute insanity.

I was a Q&A mod back in GLB1 days working for Catch 22. I genuinely tried hard and put in effort until I quit the post. There were other people who just had a heart for answering questions in the newb forum -- they did it for free. So what....we aren't communists...this isn't the YMCA....and we aren't in kindergarten.

(to be clear - I'm not jockeying for a "paid writing position" -- my write ups are lame. If I were going to try to find someone to write next seasons Journeyman ladder (where my team is) - I'd nominate Madden first...and after him there would be several suggestions I'd have before the offer fell to me and my lame ass write ups.

I agree that GLB2 needs its own Facebook page.

The write-ups that people do are awesome, but I don't think people need to be paid for doing them. We are already getting consistent write-ups and you still think that the forums are dead...so I don't see how paying people is suddenly going to make the forums alive.

The best way to bring life to the game and forums is to bring in new players. Advertising is an obvious option, but I think Romo brought up a great point, and that is to give current users more incentive to invite friends to this game. The current system of getting a whopping 50 flex points per referral isn't going to motivate many people.

Something like this might get people a little more interested in bringing in their friends:

1st Referral - 500 flex, 1 extra free player, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
2nd Referral - 1000 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
3rd Referral - 1500 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
4th Referral - 2000 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
5th Referral - 2500 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase, an achievement and an extra Superstar of any position that ignores the superstar bars

That's just off the top of my head, but I'm sure other people can come up with some ideas for incentives that people might like.

Originally posted by rob4121983
I agree that GLB2 needs its own Facebook page.

The write-ups that people do are awesome, but I don't think people need to be paid for doing them. We are already getting consistent write-ups and you still think that the forums are dead...so I don't see how paying people is suddenly going to make the forums alive.

The best way to bring life to the game and forums is to bring in new players. Advertising is an obvious option, but I think Romo brought up a great point, and that is to give current users more incentive to invite friends to this game. The current system of getting a whopping 50 flex points per referral isn't going to motivate many people.

Something like this might get people a little more interested in bringing in their friends:

1st Referral - 500 flex, 1 extra free player, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
2nd Referral - 1000 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
3rd Referral - 1500 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
4th Referral - 2000 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase and an achievement
5th Referral - 2500 flex, 50% off your next flex purchase, an achievement and an extra Superstar of any position that ignores the superstar bars

That's just off the top of my head, but I'm sure other people can come up with some ideas for incentives that people might like.



Good idea, but if I had to wager it was set so low as to prevent tempting people to create multis.

Originally posted by Majestic Gent
Good idea, but if I had to wager it was set so low as to prevent tempting people to create multis.

There will always be people who try to take advantage of the systems that are put in place. There must be some kind of safeguards that can be implemented to at least to try minimize this type of exploitation. Ultimately though, bringing in new players to the game is very important and I don't think fear of people making multis should outweigh the desire to bring in fresh blood.

There are indeed multi safeguards in place when it comes to the referral system. It'll never be 100% perfect, but it does the job.

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
There are indeed multi safeguards in place when it comes to the referral system. It'll never be 100% perfect, but it does the job.

I've always wondered why they are against multi accounts. Yes, you get a free player, but if you had 10 accounts and 10 free players, they still have to be put on player teams. (Who cares about CPU teams.)

You'd need 40+ multi accounts to field a team and even then you have to pay flex to get the team.

I think it's better to let people have multi accounts and change the benefit of an account, ie the free player, then to be against multi accounts. Change the benefit. Make the free player only free for Rookie ball. Or something.

In the F2P MMO game market, 90% of the players never pay a dime. Yet the 10% that spend money, spend enough that average spending over all players is higher than a sub BUSN model. And every company will tell you that free players have value. They bring activity, community and important socialization and game transactions (ie not cash transactions to play the game, but game transactions between players).

I think there's a better mix to be had for GLB2 by incorporating a better F2P model. If you don't have a high level of activity, it's hard to have a successful game. After all, there's almost zero incremental cost of that incremental activity. (I'm not ignorant of higher costs. Costs increase more as a step function in this type of business rather than linearly.)

So you should be pushing activity, activity, activity. Even if it's from free players.

Ideas:

Make scrims free when scheduled by the team owner (so you have to have bought/spent FLEX). A "free" player who is GM would need FLEX to schedule the scrim.
Take away boost costs and just charge a season fee for each player - taking away the play-to-win aspect.
Lower the price for the next player you create. Gives people an incentive to create more players (hence, activity).
Allow owners to own multiple teams. Lower the price for each successive team. (Hence, activity).
Remove the chemistry hit, so people can add/drop players (and the agents behind them) more easily.
Change Chemsitry so that instead of low chem players performing badly on the field (turnovers), instead reward high chem players with lower contract values. Or something.
Reward League Champions and Ladder Champions with FLEX. Give it to the coaches and player agents.
Reward agents of Players that win league awards with FLEX.
Allow the gifting of FLEX to other accounts.
Allow multi accounts even if it means changing the free player potential abuse.
Allow people to earn more than 3 Superstars (say up to 6) by referring new players/creating multi accounts who buy FLEX.

Some people,will be for these ideas, plenty will be against one, some or all.

But there has to be a focus on promoting activity and then letting your current customers do the marketing/ advertising/ sales for you.

Originally posted by Xars
I've always wondered why they are against multi accounts. Yes, you get a free player, but if you had 10 accounts and 10 free players, they still have to be put on player teams. (Who cares about CPU teams.)


Why would anyone pay a dime to build a player, if you were allowed to have unlimited multi accounts? This is a business after all.

Originally posted by Xars

Take away boost costs and just charge a season fee for each player - taking away the play-to-win aspect.

"You play to win the game!"
- Herman Edwards