Originally posted by hotdaddy
Great idea, but really difficult for casual players to hang with this game. And I never figured out - is this supposed to be an Alpha, a Beta, or a live service? Cause it seems to be in development, have no great service, but charge for people to really test it.
Cheers!
Hotdaddy
Agreed with the sentiment if not the action. A couple of points:
1. Game is incredibly difficult for newcomers and doesn't offer them enough excitement reward for sticking to it. Primary reasons;
a. Too many UDNERPOWERED plays. Both on offense and defense, including alot of counterintuitive ones. By and large, most of the successful teams are using the same grouping of plays. We run them over and over again in games because...well they work. We see them over and over again and design builds, logic, and players towards countering them. Have you ever played a game of Chess, Civilization, or Monopoly and gone, "boy I hope this unfolds like the last one"... repetitive is simply not good in games and until there are more plays that work better we'll keep seeing newcomers get slaughtered. Some of them are also counterintuitive, how many NFL teams do you see running a 3-3-5 against a goalline stack? Bottom line its all wonky and alot of newcomers to overcome.
b. Critical Game Situations (The most exciting) are still broke. Two minute drill, 3rd and short, 4th down logic. Broken on all fronts, End of Game - End of Logic is still broken. However, teams can run 4wide spread dive on 3rd and 1 all day long and yet none of the LB's / DT's / S's know its coming. 4th down logic right now is too restrictive and should be opened up.
c. No "Field Position" moral hazard. Punting is so robust right now , if you go three and out from your own 20 your likely to have your oppnenents next drive start at their own 30 (a net 50 which is a ridiculous net). Top NET punting NFL average last season was 45.3 by St. Louis "average" is 41. Starting at your own 40/45 is much different than back at your own 30 and even sometimes are going 20 to 20 touchback. Even more so punting from your own 5 , generally starts the other team inside the 50 in the NFL and college, not so here. This is the better hazard for "passing fixes" teams who pass can chew up lots of yardage the difficulty lies in when they go 3 and out - its the hazard that scares coaches giving away good field position. Right now any half way decent GLB punter can keep you out of trouble.
D. Too many sacks, not enough interceptions, not enough throw aways, not enough catch and run for the score. Blitzing and Cover 0 when used properly at all levels , problem is it should also lead to big plays in the passing game. You blitz 6 against a 5 wide set, there should be a higher percentage than their is that someone will go to house or at least VERY VERY far with the ball.
2. Structural with how your running the game.
I'll put this in IT terms so, hopefully, it'll get through but: You have the same Product Owner as a Lead Developer. That is an epic fail in any software project. One person should be managing your product backlog and ensuring the customer gets a "shippable unit". One person should be writing the code to implement changes. Until you fix this nothing else achievable matters.
Some Quick Solutions:
A. Break the Product Owner and Code Writing into different people different jobs; let them focus on improvement.
B. Fix the punting distance, its one of the easiest "off-sets" for a team taking big chances and running three and out.
C. Make Wide Open catches easier to make and stay on your feet... that'll add the morale hazard for overload blitzing. Conversely, make double coverage catches much more challenging and much more likely to be intercepted.
D. Give the QB (and every other position for that matter) a slider bar for getting rid of the ball. I'm not talking about blitzes they can't see coming, blind side blitzes and sudden beats happen and should result in sack. Add some hazard as well , if you set the bar too high , your "jitterness" kicks in and you throw the ball away (or better still check it down to the back as QBs are taught to do) when you don't need to.
E. Give the DC's slider bars on "obvious situations" for example allow them to FLOOD THE BOX, on 3rd and short , roll the LB's and S's to the line. Ditto when a team lines up goalline or Double Tight Big on 3rd and forever, to back off and to the outside allowing the underneath catch.
F. Fix the End of Game / End of Half... but there is a whole thread on this.
G. Allow a "Head Coach" setting for 4th down/2 pt conversion and maybe eventual trick plays from punts/ FG's. - Long term but would be fun.
H. Allow multiple teams to be owned by the same owners and re-sell teams above rookie level. CPU's are not exactly good for play.... Allow a team owner who has achieved a Veteran status team (coming soon) to directly own a team below that level. That'll increase your number of human owned teams. While your at it, put a 30 day "wait time" on signing up for the game and owning the team, let them learn before they burn.
I. Again .... BREAK THE PRODUCT OWNER and LEAD DEVELOPER into two different roles. Having this be the same person just isn't working.
All in all - I still think you guys have done a great job with this versus GLB1. I'm not bored and will keep playing just a few (ok more than a few) helpful steps to making the game as good as it could be.
Great idea, but really difficult for casual players to hang with this game. And I never figured out - is this supposed to be an Alpha, a Beta, or a live service? Cause it seems to be in development, have no great service, but charge for people to really test it.
Cheers!
Hotdaddy
Agreed with the sentiment if not the action. A couple of points:
1. Game is incredibly difficult for newcomers and doesn't offer them enough excitement reward for sticking to it. Primary reasons;
a. Too many UDNERPOWERED plays. Both on offense and defense, including alot of counterintuitive ones. By and large, most of the successful teams are using the same grouping of plays. We run them over and over again in games because...well they work. We see them over and over again and design builds, logic, and players towards countering them. Have you ever played a game of Chess, Civilization, or Monopoly and gone, "boy I hope this unfolds like the last one"... repetitive is simply not good in games and until there are more plays that work better we'll keep seeing newcomers get slaughtered. Some of them are also counterintuitive, how many NFL teams do you see running a 3-3-5 against a goalline stack? Bottom line its all wonky and alot of newcomers to overcome.
b. Critical Game Situations (The most exciting) are still broke. Two minute drill, 3rd and short, 4th down logic. Broken on all fronts, End of Game - End of Logic is still broken. However, teams can run 4wide spread dive on 3rd and 1 all day long and yet none of the LB's / DT's / S's know its coming. 4th down logic right now is too restrictive and should be opened up.
c. No "Field Position" moral hazard. Punting is so robust right now , if you go three and out from your own 20 your likely to have your oppnenents next drive start at their own 30 (a net 50 which is a ridiculous net). Top NET punting NFL average last season was 45.3 by St. Louis "average" is 41. Starting at your own 40/45 is much different than back at your own 30 and even sometimes are going 20 to 20 touchback. Even more so punting from your own 5 , generally starts the other team inside the 50 in the NFL and college, not so here. This is the better hazard for "passing fixes" teams who pass can chew up lots of yardage the difficulty lies in when they go 3 and out - its the hazard that scares coaches giving away good field position. Right now any half way decent GLB punter can keep you out of trouble.
D. Too many sacks, not enough interceptions, not enough throw aways, not enough catch and run for the score. Blitzing and Cover 0 when used properly at all levels , problem is it should also lead to big plays in the passing game. You blitz 6 against a 5 wide set, there should be a higher percentage than their is that someone will go to house or at least VERY VERY far with the ball.
2. Structural with how your running the game.
I'll put this in IT terms so, hopefully, it'll get through but: You have the same Product Owner as a Lead Developer. That is an epic fail in any software project. One person should be managing your product backlog and ensuring the customer gets a "shippable unit". One person should be writing the code to implement changes. Until you fix this nothing else achievable matters.
Some Quick Solutions:
A. Break the Product Owner and Code Writing into different people different jobs; let them focus on improvement.
B. Fix the punting distance, its one of the easiest "off-sets" for a team taking big chances and running three and out.
C. Make Wide Open catches easier to make and stay on your feet... that'll add the morale hazard for overload blitzing. Conversely, make double coverage catches much more challenging and much more likely to be intercepted.
D. Give the QB (and every other position for that matter) a slider bar for getting rid of the ball. I'm not talking about blitzes they can't see coming, blind side blitzes and sudden beats happen and should result in sack. Add some hazard as well , if you set the bar too high , your "jitterness" kicks in and you throw the ball away (or better still check it down to the back as QBs are taught to do) when you don't need to.
E. Give the DC's slider bars on "obvious situations" for example allow them to FLOOD THE BOX, on 3rd and short , roll the LB's and S's to the line. Ditto when a team lines up goalline or Double Tight Big on 3rd and forever, to back off and to the outside allowing the underneath catch.
F. Fix the End of Game / End of Half... but there is a whole thread on this.
G. Allow a "Head Coach" setting for 4th down/2 pt conversion and maybe eventual trick plays from punts/ FG's. - Long term but would be fun.
H. Allow multiple teams to be owned by the same owners and re-sell teams above rookie level. CPU's are not exactly good for play.... Allow a team owner who has achieved a Veteran status team (coming soon) to directly own a team below that level. That'll increase your number of human owned teams. While your at it, put a 30 day "wait time" on signing up for the game and owning the team, let them learn before they burn.
I. Again .... BREAK THE PRODUCT OWNER and LEAD DEVELOPER into two different roles. Having this be the same person just isn't working.
All in all - I still think you guys have done a great job with this versus GLB1. I'm not bored and will keep playing just a few (ok more than a few) helpful steps to making the game as good as it could be.
