Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
Coverage right being never ever letting someone run free while you run a Cover 0?

Wait wat? Have we not shown you numerous replays of wr3 and 4 running free on corner routes?

Originally posted by Galithor
or maybe it's just a really good advertisement for Adderfist building a badass WR.

It's not just sprinting that makes Addai cool.

Again this isn't an air raid problem. It's glb 2 wide. Even og's slow slot man reflects this.

Though I find it hilarious that we make fun of perfect coverage needing to be staying with a wr doing one specific route over and fucking over but hey we need 70+ footwork and sa's to stay with this route. The wr just needs a couple skills that are mediocre because the route itself makes the separation. Oh then there is a neat sa called head fake. Lol

Originally posted by Xavori
You don't watch games, do you?

7 guys in coverage...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204141
There is no amount of skills allowed in the game that CB3 could have had to go from a dead stop to having any hope of covering his man.

8 guys i coverage...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204475
Not only does CB3 turn too late, he turns both inside and heading straight down the field while the WR is breaking to the outside.

Just in case you missed it last time...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204496
For those playing the home game, that's a CB who is faster than the WR being left 5 yards in the dust because of how bad the turns happen

Remember when Galithor said cover 2 shells...well...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2205025
Ya, having that over the top help from the safety matters a whole bunch, doesn't it?

In fact, Corny, you can just watch that whole game of lots and lots of Air Raid out routes going effectively uncovered because DB's always turn inside, and they don't follow the WR while making the turn.

Lets break this game down:

Cover 2 - 19/37 for 194 yards
Cover 1 - 24/41 for 284 yards


Why are you running Cover 1 vs a team that spams corner routes? You have a great Cover 3 play if you know the pass is coming as well numerous good Man Base plays if your Safeties are able to play man.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Lets break this game down:

Cover 2 - 19/37 for 194 yards
Cover 1 - 24/41 for 284 yards


Why are you running Cover 1 vs a team that spams corner routes? You have a great Cover 3 play if you know the pass is coming as well numerous good Man Base plays if your Safeties are able to play man.

1. What does any of that have to do with whether or not coverage is broken? Just because you think you could slap a bandaid over it, doesn't mean it doesn't need fixed. Even when I argued that I could stop QB Rollout, I always wanted defenses to play smarter. I'm pretty much asking for the same thing here except in this case the bandaids aren't really stopping so much as slowing the gushers of blood by a drop or two.

2. You're not seriously considering playing zone defense as a real suggestion, are you? But, if you are, go watch the recent Yorick/Victorious game where I did in fact reduce the number of completions to out routes by running zones, and in the process got completely tore up on pretty much every other route. Even Corndog can't get zone to work on his team, and he's supposed knows all about how it works.

Originally posted by Xavori
1. What does any of that have to do with whether or not coverage is broken? Just because you think you could slap a bandaid over it, doesn't mean it doesn't need fixed. Even when I argued that I could stop QB Rollout, I always wanted defenses to play smarter. I'm pretty much asking for the same thing here except in this case the bandaids aren't really stopping so much as slowing the gushers of blood by a drop or two.

2. You're not seriously considering playing zone defense as a real suggestion, are you? But, if you are, go watch the recent Yorick/Victorious game where I did in fact reduce the number of completions to out routes by running zones, and in the process got completely tore up on pretty much every other route. Even Corndog can't get zone to work on his team, and he's supposed knows all about how it works.

1. Are you wanting your DBs to run with the WR on every single play without ever getting burned? What's going to happen when thats changed and you have CBs like mine who have about a 25% completion rate against them? Go for it, I'm all for making pass defense stronger.

2. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/images/tactics/defense_plays/189.jpg

Originally posted by Parab00n
1. Are you wanting your DBs to run with the WR on every single play without ever getting burned? What's going to happen when thats changed and you have CBs like mine who have about a 25% completion rate against them? Go for it, I'm all for making pass defense stronger.

No. I'm pretty opposed to 100% success rate stuff.

What I do want, tho, is for the 100% broken stuff to get fixed.

p.s. Journeyman stats are pretty meaningless in terms of the current game. No superstars. No teams really built to exploit recent changes. Etc. In fact, the vast majority of journeyman teams all look pretty much the same. Yes, there are exceptions like yours, Queen City, SF, and a few others, but most of them are run first but with decent levels of passing. And, for the most part, the journeyman OC's seem really hesitant to adapt to current metas. When I watch teams to put together my gameplans, I'm still seeing tons of hook and short routes. Contrast that with seasoned on down where practically all the OC's have gone all-in on out and deep passing.

Why do people keep bringing up wanting to stay with the wr on every play? Are you guys not seeing the completely different separation that wr3 and 4 get from any other? This just boggles my mind as to why people are continually making excuses for this.

Originally posted by Parab00n
1. Are you wanting your DBs to run with the WR on every single play without ever getting burned? What's going to happen when thats changed and you have CBs like mine who have about a 25% completion rate against them? Go for it, I'm all for making pass defense stronger.

2. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/images/tactics/defense_plays/189.jpg

The problem is that against some routes the coverage is good, maybe even great, but against specific routes, the CBs ALWAYS screw up. That means that it is a sim problem and not a coverage problem.

If you want to run a Band-Aid sim, that's fine. I think what the people asking for change are looking for is a smarter reaction and not a Band-Aid omnipotent coverage scheme.

Originally posted by Xavori
You don't watch games, do you?

7 guys in coverage...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204141
There is no amount of skills allowed in the game that CB3 could have had to go from a dead stop to having any hope of covering his man.

8 guys i coverage...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204475
Not only does CB3 turn too late, he turns both inside and heading straight down the field while the WR is breaking to the outside.

Just in case you missed it last time...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204496
For those playing the home game, that's a CB who is faster than the WR being left 5 yards in the dust because of how bad the turns happen

Remember when Galithor said cover 2 shells...well...
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2205025
Ya, having that over the top help from the safety matters a whole bunch, doesn't it?

In fact, Corny, you can just watch that whole game of lots and lots of Air Raid out routes going effectively uncovered because DB's always turn inside, and they don't follow the WR while making the turn.

Complaining when the best passing offense in the game completed barely 50% of their passes . . .

This has nothing to do with completion %.

Originally posted by Time Trial
The problem is that against some routes the coverage is good, maybe even great, but against specific routes, the CBs ALWAYS screw up. That means that it is a sim problem and not a coverage problem.

Ya. The backpedal mechanism Corny put in this season is well-balanced versus the hook routes that were so popular the previous seasons. On those routes, it becomes a contest between the CB and the WR/QB. Good CB's will win more often than lose. Good WR's will win more often than lose. That's what the goal should be.

On out routes, 100% of the time the CB is forced to turn, the WR gets open. There is no balance here. CB being inside of the guy they're covering and not making clean quick turns combine to give a 100% advantage to the WR in getting open. At that point, the only thing that stops the offense is the offense. This is totally out of balance and broken.

I don't think people understand what we are asking for, we just want Cbs to make the transition from back peddling to running with the wr to be smooth instead of this freeze stuff that creates artificial separation. And yes I want my guy with 82 coverage tech to stick with the guy with 60-70 route tech/elusivenes.

I wouldnt mess too much with long passing because short passing is too much of a gamble with the back peddling and high interception skill. Usually the deep ball is the scary gamble, but right now its short.

Originally posted by Mezirah
I wouldnt mess too much with long passing because short passing is too much of a gamble with the back peddling and high interception skill. Usually the deep ball is the scary gamble, but right now its short.

This is a general issue above and beyond the coverage turns being discussed. There's definitely a big problem with the fact that it's almost always in your best interest to throw deeper than shorter because your completion % on shorter passes is not demonstrably better than on deeper passes. In many cases, shorter passes have considerably worse completion %.