Warrior General Games

Originally posted by bhall43
The reason those plays largely suck is because it takes a ridiculous build for the DE to actually see the flat. You have to build a player specifically just for beating the OT/TE's split second blocking interaction. Once you do that the world of outside/inside run stopping possibilities opens vastly.

I definitely agree DE's and OLB's need way better contain logic. They should line up outside the TE and immediately be working upfield making it impossible for the TE to keep them out of the path of the runner which would theoretically force the runner back where there is inside help.

'Course, that inside help would then need to be smart enough to move down the line rather than charging into the scrum so they are actually there to help with the outside defender forces a play back inside.

But how did you get the HB to play QB?

Originally posted by nortobc
But how did you get the HB to play QB?

How did I not go check out TxSteve's bs sooner...

Last season's playoff game he played against Sexy...his QB was held to 30 yards on 8 QB Rollouts which is pretty much what Sexy did to Yorick as well. In his game with LUE, he had his QB try a couple and picked up 9 yards total.

No wonder he wants it nerfed. He can't make it work anymore without lining a HB up at QB.

Originally posted by Sardonik00
Xavori, why are you helping the Huntmsans and Jampies of the world game plan Yorick? I understand their whining is deafening. And I understand your desire to show off. But can we please channel that latter desire into a top ladder spot and turn the whining into crying? Remember I feed on victories…and tears.

Because Xavori is basically drafting and submitting a strong effort to sway corndog's mind on his entire team's paradigm, because Xavori knows the issue is on the table.

L2forum

Originally posted by Mezirah
Because Xavori is basically drafting and submitting a strong effort to sway corndog's mind on his entire team's paradigm, because Xavori knows the issue is on the table.

L2forum

If I can make it so bad teams don't magically become good with this play because every DC in the game knows how to stop non-running teams from running it, then my entire argument is validated.

If, on the other hand, we see a bunch of teams with scrub QB's and no lead blockers still winning games after DC's start doing a better job, then I'll know I was wrong.

I'm always willing to put my ideas to the test, and I always, always go into arguments with the idea I could be wrong.

It's a big part of what makes me better than everybody else if you give me enough time to learn the game

Originally posted by Xavori
I definitely agree DE's and OLB's need way better contain logic. They should line up outside the TE and immediately be working upfield making it impossible for the TE to keep them out of the path of the runner which would theoretically force the runner back where there is inside help.

'Course, that inside help would then need to be smart enough to move down the line rather than charging into the scrum so they are actually there to help with the outside defender forces a play back inside.

Specifically for right now at least it would push the QB or HB farther out or even deeper with one less lead blocker. Like it is supposed to. Right now unfortunately it is just like if you called a regular play as the DE just interacts with the OT and lets the TE or whoever depending on the formation move on out into space.

The common misconception is that you need to completely shut down the QB Rollout to beat Rollout teams... it's not going to happen. The best you can do is slow it down as much as possible and let your offense win. At least that what I've experienced. I'm sure there are a few teams out there that have the players in place to completely shut it down.

Originally posted by Galithor
I thought Paraboon's use of 4-3 Man DE Flats looked pretty good. Anyone tried the Man DE Flat Strong play from the same section of the 4-3 book? Pulls the FS up top to normal position, which ought to give better positioning for that last defender role they typically play against this. Also puts them in better position to help with the inside runs.

Generally, I think the 3-2-6 plays are dead on arrival when the rollout team can just easily gash you on the interior. You're pretty much looking at 5-2 and 4-3 plays. I don't like the 4-4 for the same reasons I don't like the goalline plays. The SS has a better angle in most any play than an extra LB that's susceptible to getting caught in the LOS scrum.

I used 1 DE flat in a game vs yorick and my builds did a decent job with it
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/62281/211108

I haven't tried man de flat strong

Originally posted by nortobc
WTF? I didn't think you could put a HB at QB? When I set my depth chart for QB, HB is not an option.

I jimmied with my depth chart a bunch and eventually got the HB's in there.
I haven't ever used it in a real game - only scrims against my friends team - and scrims where I make an effort to shut down the QB roll outs
I've reported to Corndog in case it is an unintended "feature" (a couple days ago -- again - I've never used it in a real game)

But I would point out that I used it in the scrim with Yorick on May 16th. QB snaps = 0
And he just noticed today when someone pointed it out. Xav doesn't even WATCH the games people...

Originally posted by Couchduck
The common misconception is that you need to completely shut down the QB Rollout to beat Rollout teams... it's not going to happen. The best you can do is slow it down as much as possible and let your offense win. At least that what I've experienced. I'm sure there are a few teams out there that have the players in place to completely shut it down.

I agree with this. Can't be shut down. It will eventually break long a long TD (or more than 1). Better score some points...which many times leads to people needing to run it themselves!

Bhall, I don't feel like the DE actually getting to the flat matters on the plays I mentioned. He's eating the TE block, which is one of the pullers, so its all good. More interesting to me is the LBs and SS positioning on the play. LBs play deep, and the SS is out with the CB. Paraboon uses the version that does the same with the FS backside, but the Strong version doesn't shift the FS, which ought to be better for allowing the FS to help against the rollouts, just looking at the play art. Hopefully someone will test it today.

If someone wants to scrim to test the man de flat strong sned a scrim/let me know your team.

I've got Man DE Flat Strong from my 4-3 in as my main default D against GL

team 284

sent a scrim ill put the man DE flats and the flat strong in.