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Corndog
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Originally posted by bhall43
What is broken about gl rollout is that no matter what you do the offense has the numbers as they come out with 4 lead blockers.


ldo

But what is the defense doing wrong?

Should I just remove FB from GL so offense only has 10 players? I can't fix something without knowing what's actually broken with it.
Edited by Corndog on May 16, 2014 09:06:14
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by TxSteve
I'm talking basic Os and Ds -- to cover a very basic range.

Don't you think you could tweak the current defaults in a way that makes the game more fun for new players...without giving up any of your 'secrets'?

As I've said several times - don't you think getting GL Defenses OUT of the playbook against GL offenses would at least improve a new users experience....without giving anything up?


If you changed it would still be bad. The problem exists no matter what you do there. Best case scenario you run default 5-2 which still gets lit up.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by Corndog
ldo

But what is the defense doing wrong?

Should I just remove FB from GL so offense only has 10 players? I can't fix something without knowing what's actually broken with it.


The problem is the defense had no reliable counter. I mean rookie it's just obvious the skills aren't there for an lb to reliably make his way from mid field to sidelines through 3 blockers to get the hb. But even when you get skills to reliably get beyond those defenders the offense still has all the numbers. I don't think it's really a problem that exists in builds as much as there just isn't a valuable way of making the numbers more even. Even if you are entirely giving up the middle using a quarter you are boned.
 
TxSteve
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Originally posted by Corndog
1)
As for your side example...what is wrong and what should be fixed there? Not disagreeing with you, but what is actually broken there? Who isn't doing what they should be and what should they be doing instead?


You've got access to lots of people that know more than me....

But I'll gladly prove myself stupid by giving my opinion:

The problem with QB roll out and (sometimes) HB GL sweep:
A: goal line D's are terrible against them
B: The HB sweeps do seem to get contained with the right d play called and a reasonable amount of pursuit (but it is not possible for a new player in rookie to yet have enough pursuit to stop it)
C: on the QB roll out - you could probably watch a couple plays in my link and know more than me - but there is no play to guarantee (or even 80%) stop it. All it takes is a single bad path by a defender...and TD. This is especially bad in rookie -- it still exists in sophomore (I don't know beyond).

The QB roll out is like an "I win" button. The question really becomes: morally...how much can I run this and still feel good about myself...

When I scout teams a level ahead of me in the ladder (and if I'm drawing them in the ladder...they are obviously 'bad') - if I see them running GL defenses...I can literally guarantee a win - because I'll get a first down...or score 1 out of 3 plays.

In my mind it is simply an overpowered play -- that is EXTREMELY highlighted in rookie.

Yes - people claim they can stop it...and yes people are a lot better than me at this game...but if you are a sophomore team and think you can stop it -- and are willing ---- speak up and I will pay for the scrim to see.

My QB in rookie last year (and I'd like to add - my QB had ZERO points invested in running skills last season -- he was ALL throwing skills and leadership and conditioning): 1200 yards; 7 yards per carry - 24 TD's (I used it but tried not to abuse it too much)
Sexy Dance Fighters QBs: (they tried to abuse it) - 3000 yards; 11 ypc; 42 TDs (for one of them) -- 4000 yards; 13 ypc ; 46 TDs (for the other). Combined QB rushes last season in rookie for sexy dance fighters - 7000 yards, 12 ypc, 88 TD's.

Now - I still beat them both times I played them....but that's not what we're talking about here.

We're talking about when they put up 90+ against another newbie rookie team....based only on a single offensive play...for which there is no good defensive counter (especially in early rookie)

Edited by TxSteve on May 16, 2014 09:21:33
Edited by TxSteve on May 16, 2014 09:17:42
 
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you are spot on in regards to the QB rollout. You can stop it sometimes but it takes luck and more luck to stop in consistently at lower levels. You need to sell out to stop it (build CBs like run stuffing LBers) but then you are screwed against passing teams and even then you aren't guaranteeing stopping it
 
TxSteve
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Right - even trying to stop it...and building to stop it...I still gave up 14 points against Sexy last season in the playoffs (not complaining here) -- AND in a scrim this morning - built to stop it...trying to stop it (though we did experiment with some different plays to see if we could stop it well) - gave up 42 points (I did keep the 'long' TD's down....but still got gouged 8.5 and 11 yards per carry).


I can't think of another offensive play where: you can game plan for it...you can build for it....and you might be able to contain it mostly....but you're still poised to give up a long TD at basically any moment.


 
bhall43
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Not sure if this would help but in real life football pursuit angles push the ball carrier back to the middle of the field. Often times in glb the lbs and corners and safeties pursue immediately towards the pocket and get caught by every lead blocker just getting off their block or completely take themselves out of the play all together. Then again this is the only reason wr screens have any relevance at all currently.
 
Corndog
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The blitzing GL D plays that I'm seeing are actually pretty effective against it. Granted, I can't find a team that just spams it to watch, and skimming through your games doesn't give much of a sample size.

It looks like a lineman and a blitzer pretty much always get penetration into the backfield...is it just a lack of pursuit and/or blitz awareness or what?
Edited by Corndog on May 16, 2014 09:29:58
 
TxSteve
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Here is a rookie example - just have to look through the rookie leagues for the biggest blow outs

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/60434
 
Xavori
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Originally posted by Jampy2.0
2. The flex back idea is a decent idea, but it is 100% gameable. Right off the top of my head I figured how I can turn 20k flex into 100k in a few seasons.


No you can't. You get back less flex than you spend on the flex back, and the human recruitment flex-back is lost if you cut the player during the season they got you the flex. What the flex back for scrims does is encourages people who are near a flex-back teir to spend more to get to that next level, even if it means they're spending more than they're going to get back. There are any number of marketing studies that show that yes, consumers really will do this.

Originally posted by Corndog
Also, as for part of the actual thread, "LET EVERYONE HAVE AS MANY TEAMS AS THEY WANT ITS MORE MONEY"...recruiting becomes even more of a nightmare for every team owner. Sure, it makes your networked teams easier, but 90% of the teams in the game having 6 human players and not finding any more isn't going to create a great gaming experience for them, or your networked teams playing against them.

Case study: GLB1.


That's self correcting, especially if there is a handy-dandy user manual that suggests starting a private forum and finding out how much interest there is another team, or reading the existing players looking for team forums, etc.

I'm assuming a basic desire to succeed here. Yes, people are going to fail (ie. Jampy, Jon Hunstman, etc.). But most people who are ponying up 500 flex aren't just going to want to throw that away. Give people information on how to succeed and turn them loose to do it.

Right now the game absolutely positively is losing teams and leaving players stranded. Nobody wants to play for CPU teams because they suck. You're basically throwing away a part of your player's career, and since the higher up you go, the fewer teams there will be to play for, it's not just throwing away career games, but it's making it harder for you to find a human team in the future.

That problem has to be corrected or as peeti pointed out, there will only be a tiny group of people playing anymore. Y'all are doing a great job of making hypothetical claims about player behavior based on GLB1, but, not to mince words here, GLB1 sucks for new players trying to get involved, it sucks as an example of marketing a product, and it sucks as having anything to do with GLB2 other than name and being a football simulator. If your argument boils down to "But GLB1...", your argument isn't persuasive. Sorry, Corndog.

GLB2 is way easier to learn. Write manuals. Make all the tooltips better. Don't give out formulas, but at least make sure that you explain how every stat and trait gets tied into the player. Explain all the actions that are affected by each skill. Talk about what going into coaching offense, defense and special teams. If the game is easier to get new players into, new players are more likely to get into it.

Then loosen up all these restrictions y'all have put in place on getting involved with the game. If I want to buy three or four teams, and I think I can find players to fill them, why are you stopping me? If I want to buy a seasoned team because I'm reading the players forum and see oodles of seasoned players looking for teams, why are you stopping me? And hey, if I want to be stupid and buy a team that is destined to fail because I don't bother to learn anything about what goes into owning a team first, well, take my money and use me as a case study for the next potential owner who comes along.

Originally posted by bhall43
What is broken about gl rollout is that no matter what you do the offense has the numbers as they come out with 4 lead blockers.


The shiny new fourth Lounge team shut out a team whose QB's tried to run 26 times. Yorick turns opposing teams QB rollouts into TFL's regularly as does Lost Lounge. Darkside beat Tampa Bay Rolling Thunder with the infamous running QB Coronal Mass Ejection 38-0 for the Eris League championship. When I tell you you're wrong calling that play broken, it's because I really do know how to stop it.
 
TxSteve
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Originally posted by Corndog
The blitzing GL D plays that I'm seeing are actually pretty effective against it. Granted, I can't find a team that just spams it to watch, and skimming through your games doesn't give much of a sample size.

It looks like a lineman and a blitzer pretty much always get penetration into the backfield...is it just a lack of pursuit and/or blitz awareness or what?


Are you looking at rookie? Or my games?

Sexy Dance Fighters of Season 3 ran it more than anyone I knew (others have since copy catted)
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/team/334

Another spammer: same league as above: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/60435
Edited by TxSteve on May 16, 2014 09:35:15
 
TxSteve
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Originally posted by Xavori
The shiny new fourth Lounge team shut out a team whose QB's tried to run 26 times. Yorick turns opposing teams QB rollouts into TFL's regularly as does Lost Lounge. Darkside beat Tampa Bay Rolling Thunder with the infamous running QB Coronal Mass Ejection 38-0 for the Eris League championship. When I tell you you're wrong calling that play broken, it's because I really do know how to stop it.


So are you open for scrims? I'd like to see it.
 
Time Trial
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Originally posted by bhall43
What is broken about gl rollout is that no matter what you do the offense has the numbers as they come out with 4 lead blockers.


I've noticed that they are all blocking to the rollout side. I've seen some interesting formations where the blitz through the middle out of a 5-2 or 4-4 has actually gotten to the QB from the abandoned coverage side.


OOO!OO
XXXXXX->

The exclamation mark attempting to show where the blitzer slipped through and got the QB from the inside.
 
Corndog
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http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/60937/170655?player_id=74257

That's basically what I see every time against GL D.

Basically the LB just needs more blitz awareness?
 
TxSteve
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Originally posted by Corndog
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/60937/170655?player_id=74257

That's basically what I see every time against GL D.

Basically the LB just needs more blitz awareness?


or agility...or sprinting...or pursuit - I don't know - but yes - that's what the thousands of GL roll out TD's look like (though many times the D at least gets someone outside before they are blocked.
 
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