Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Because those are running in straight lines, and making precise turns. Quickness, sprinting, and balance. (In that order).
3 cone drill shows how quickly a player can turn, how well he can keep speed through the sharp turn, and how well he accelerates out of it.
Shuttle runs show how quickly a player accelerates from start to dead stop, turn, then re-acceleration.
Both of these drills are in straight lines except when one makes sharp turns (Atleast 90 degrees). Never does a person run outside a straight line (or atleast they should not) during 3cone, shuttle run, or the 40YD.

I agree. The 3-cone drill shows running in a straight line and turning ability (while keeping speed during turning)--quickness, sprinting, and balance (I agree on the order as well). So we agree that footwork doesn't affect any of that, and I've already ceded that footwork does affect spinning/rotating and backward and side movement. Which was all my original point.

So, what else, specifically, are you saying footwork affects?

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
I agree. The 3-cone drill shows running in a straight line and turning ability (while keeping speed during turning)--quickness, sprinting, and balance (I agree on the order as well). So we agree that footwork doesn't affect any of that, and I've already ceded that footwork does affect spinning/rotating and backward and side movement. Which was all my original point.

So, what else, specifically, are you saying footwork affects?

It affects all side stepping and side to side movement.

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
I agree. The 3-cone drill shows running in a straight line and turning ability (while keeping speed during turning)--quickness, sprinting, and balance (I agree on the order as well). So we agree that footwork doesn't affect any of that, and I've already ceded that footwork does affect spinning/rotating and backward and side movement. Which was all my original point.

So, what else, specifically, are you saying footwork affects?

Like I said, everything that isn't straight.....

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Like I said, everything that isn't straight.....



And it doesn't affect straight running or turning as per the 3-cone drill discussion. So you're left with spin/rotating, backward and lateral movement. That was exactly what I said in my first post when you implied that I was wrong and I was misleading people. I'm pretty sure we agree on what it does, so I don't know how you're saying I'm wrong and "don't know much".

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
So you're left with spin/rotating, backward and lateral movement.

More than that, watch a game or two..

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
I don't agree. I think footwork helps side and backward movement, and spin/rotating in place (i.e. not necessarily a full 180 or 360).

No one argued this... this is pretty common and accepted knowledge. They are also where (imo) footwork is large part of a successful/clean roll.

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
I don't really see how it benefits any other movement. Turning seems to be only influenced by quickness and a little by balance.

This is where you're BSing. This isn't about turning though, we know turning is quickness, not sure why you're bring that up.

This whole argument is confusing. Other then straight line running, side to side movement, turning, and backpeddaling, what other movement is there? Vertical movement? Also, answering posts with 'watch a play or two' and blasting people for offering an opinion isn't helping. It's actually hindering people's ability to find the actual answer. The fact is, the majority of answers are opinions/educated guesses because the majority of people posting have not written the code for the game. Footwork could very possibly affect a clean roll, but as it was stated earlier, it's not cool to post speculation.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
More than that, watch a game or two..

I've watched many games, and I gave my opinion on what I believe footwork does and doesn't do. You, however, only tell me I'm wrong, but won't say anything specific to refute it or give evidence of an alternative. All you do is post vague comments and lob insults--which is fine I'm an adult I can take it, but when that's all there is to your point of view you're not helping anyone.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
No one argued this... this is pretty common and accepted knowledge.

You argued this... You said footwork does a lot more than this, but won't elaborate or provide evidence.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
This is where you're BSing. This isn't about turning though, we know turning is quickness, not sure why you're bring that up.

How am I BSing? I brought this up because you're saying that footwork does everything that's not straight line movement. As Dump To Gates pointed out there's not an infinite amount of movement directions. I brought up spinning/rotating, lateral, and backward movement as affected by footwork. You implied I was wrong and said I didn't know anything. The only other movement type out there is turning, which we agree is quickness and balance. So how am I wrong? What do you supposedly know that we don't? What other movement does footwork affect that we haven't already agreed on?

Originally posted by Dump To Gates
Other then straight line running, side to side movement, turning, and backpeddaling, what other movement is there?

You literally everything that isn't straight, I'm not sure what you don't get.

You ever see a rookie defensive player in pursuit, or a rookie QB on a rollout, that wobbling look they had, I wouldn't be surprised if footwork doesn't straighten that out.

Originally posted by Dump To Gates
This whole argument is confusing. Other then straight line running, side to side movement, turning, and backpeddaling, what other movement is there? Vertical movement? Also, answering posts with 'watch a play or two' and blasting people for offering an opinion isn't helping. It's actually hindering people's ability to find the actual answer. The fact is, the majority of answers are opinions/educated guesses because the majority of people posting have not written the code for the game. Footwork could very possibly affect a clean roll, but as it was stated earlier, it's not cool to post speculation.

Sorry for my part in any confusion. I agree there are only a limited amount of movement possibilities: straight-line, lateral, backward, spinning/rotating, and turning. Footwork affects lateral, backward, and spinning/rotating, and not straight-line or turning. Apparently, though, I am wrong, don't know anything, and need to watch more games. I am just trying to get a specific answer about how that is wrong--he seems to allude to footwork affecting more movement than that, but won't say what. If I'm wrong, that's fine, but since he's being so vague I'm guessing he has no idea what he's talking about, and just wanted to feel superior.

All I'm saying is why bother try to finite the movement possibilities, since I doubt the movement is coded within the boundaries of real life movement, seeing how I've seen joes do things that people irl don't do.

If you have seen some of the movements I am referring to, which do not fall under the 3 different movements you keep repeating.

Like I said, and i'm not sure why you're getting buthurt about it, had you watched more games and seen the movements I am referring to, you wouldn't try to finite what footwork can do.

But at this point you're changing your initial argument, you're thinking of this from a realistic physical point of view. Think of this as codes with possibilities and impossibilities, limits and restrictions.

It's not possible to think of something with limits and restrictions and also not finite. Those terms are synonymous. Regardless, I'm not hurt about it, like I said. But you told me I was wrong, and if that's the case, I want to know how/why so I can fix my thinking and hopefully help some others do the same in the process--you seem to be standing in the way of that while insulting me in the process. So, if I seem annoyed, that's why.

I don't believe I changed my initial argument one bit. Nevertheless, I think movement in this game can be classified into the 5 categories I said (excluding jumping). Anything else is a combination of those movements. I have watched hundreds of games, and haven't been seeing what you're seeing. So, I guess if footwork does affect the other movements your supposedly seeing, and those movements aren't part of the 5 categories I mentioned, or combinations of those categories, then it doesn't really matter because clearly they don't happen that often. Other than that we seem to agree. So for all intents and purposes it seems to be a safe bet for people to think of footwork as affecting the three categories I keep repeating and said originally, and no more.

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
It's not possible to think of something with limits and restrictions and also not finite.

Now you're just bending my words around to fit an invalid point you are trying to make.

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
So for all intents and purposes it seems to be a safe bet for people to think of footwork as affecting the three categories I keep repeating and said originally, and no more.

Another reason why you're wrong, until you are told (Via Q&A w/ Bort or Corndog), don't put a cap on anything. "and no more" shows ignorance of the sim and the way the sim is created and executes.

Just because those are the basic categories of rl movement, doesn't necessarily mean that's how it works in the sim.

That's just ridiculous. How is a player to make any progress in this game if they don't make some assumptions based on the visual evidence of the sim and other clues laid in by the developers/coders? My movement categories were thought of not with real movement in mind, but with the movement of joes. There would be many, many more categories IRL. Nevertheless, it doesn't seem like Bort and Corndog are giving up huge stockpiles of information at the moment and we need to make decisions based on something. So, currently my movement categories seem to make sense and fit what I see.

Waiting for Bort to give us all the answers is like saying we don't need to think about anything or try to figure things out for ourselves, one day God will come down and tell us everything. That may be true, but until that day, go science!

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
That's just ridiculous. How is a player to make any progress in this game if they don't make some assumptions based on the visual evidence of the sim and other clues laid in by the developers/coders?

Once again you are bending my words. I never said not to make assumptions... Making assumptions is the only way one learns .

Originally posted by Phantom Cannon
There would be many, many more categories IRL.

speaking of physical step-by-step movement, something that also falls in line with the movement of joes. Not talking about individual muscular or skeletal movement in humans, that would be a senseless and irrelevant addition to the conversation.

: popcorn:

Can we just make this a smiley already? It would get used often.