Warrior General Games

or more to the point, a winded dot should not be able to cover a rested dot and should not be able to beat a rested dot to the ball/block a rested dot/tackle a rested dot
if the penalty is 20% for being winded then a dot will have a lot of trouble competing with rested dots when winded, and if 50 conditioning/heart/toughness makes it likely that you will still have energy in the 4th quarter then those SAs arent instantly the most valuable
it could just be that both the base stats and being winded should be more effective

Except when you make the penalty more it devalues your spending on other skills quite a bit.

This is one of those situations where I don't understand WG's stance on hiding the values on skill impacts. Most MMO's are happy to tell you how a skill impacts your character's capabilities. It's not "mystery". It's frustrating.

Originally posted by bhall43
Except when you make the penalty more it devalues your spending on other skills quite a bit.

Isn't that the counter? No coach ever lets his team play without a lot of conditioning training.

I mean, an entire attribute is dedicated to stamina. That's an entire 1/6th of the attribute spending.

I almost always drop Stamina to 2-4, because the loss of conditioning is made up by the gains in other skills.

I shouldn't be able to do that without suffering some kind of issues or making up for it in other ways (lots of backups, SAs like home town hero, SAs like Showboat, etc.).

Originally posted by Galithor
This is one of those situations where I don't understand WG's stance on hiding the values on skill impacts. Most MMO's are happy to tell you how a skill impacts your character's capabilities. It's not "mystery". It's frustrating.

Yeah, but GLB was a lot more fun before we knew all of the answers.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Yeah, but GLB was a lot more fun before we knew all of the answers.

The general GLB user base still doesn't know most of the answers. Bort once said that increasing blocking will increase your ability to break blocks. He never told us how much on stuff like that almost ever. Perhaps some of the insiders got more info than the average user. The average user would just get frustrated by not knowing why his build didn't do what he expected it to do.

If GLB2 was design to get rid of some of the annoying/frustrating aspects of GLB1, it ought to consider being more revealing with exactly what skills do. Letting players make informed decisions is better than letting them blindly thrash about in frustration when builds don't do what they thought they should've done.

Originally posted by Galithor
The general GLB user base still doesn't know most of the answers. Bort once said that increasing blocking will increase your ability to break blocks. He never told us how much on stuff like that almost ever. Perhaps some of the insiders got more info than the average user. The average user would just get frustrated by not knowing why his build didn't do what he expected it to do.

If GLB2 was design to get rid of some of the annoying/frustrating aspects of GLB1, it ought to consider being more revealing with exactly what skills do. Letting players make informed decisions is better than letting them blindly thrash about in frustration when builds don't do what they thought they should've done.

I think that they've been a lot more open with GLB2. You can read the mouseovers and get a very good idea of what will help your build. A little mystery is what the game needs.

I don't know that I've ever played an RPG where the formulas are just given to you, except in some hack and slash games where the DPS calculations are all handled for you.

You might have the best armour in the game, but if you have no vitality, you'll still take more damage. How much more is never revealed. And what the fuck does "luck" do?

i think this definitively answers one question
superstars dont need backups
they're just better enough than any backup would be even when at 1stam and 1morale
unless it costs stamina and morale to do certain things, like can all of your abilities fire when you dont have extra stamina to spend on them?

Man, all the current big time MMO's lay out the statistics plain to see. You know exactly what are your critical chance, dodge chance, damage from skills, resistances, etc. League of Legends, World of Tanks, Guild Wars 2, WoW, Path of Exile, Diablo III, etc, etc. Players get more information on character attributes than ever before. LOTRO evolved from providing no information basically, to simplifying the attributes and laying it out for the player to digest.

Here, I know that balance helps me survive getting knocked down or falling. I've no concept of how that works beyond conjecture. I can't build for an "ideal" level of knockdown avoidance because I've no way to know exactly what impact having 60 vs 40 balance will have.

"mystery" is a cool buzz word. In the world of MMOs where everyone is a min-maxer, it's more correctly understood by the player as "annoying". The player ought to be able to pick and choose their strengths and weaknesses with accurate information.

That's my opinion anyhow.

Originally posted by flynn
i think this definitively answers one question
superstars dont need backups
they're just better enough than any backup would be even when at 1stam and 1morale
unless it costs stamina and morale to do certain things, like can all of your abilities fire when you dont have extra stamina to spend on them?

That was always the point, at least in my view, that superstars don't need backups. You aren't ever going to escape that problem unless you make conditioning static for all players.

Less mystery makes building much less interesting. If they were going to lay out all the numbers in the game to me I'd much rather buy premade players.

One thing that occurs to me - based on my observation (possibly flawed!):

compare Conditioning to Chemistry - and I have no doubt that Chemistry is 5 times as important (particularly noticeable in the passing game in my opinion)

I wish I could buy a second team - I'd be curious to test out low conditioning players - or even a single low conditioning HB on a heavy run team

Originally posted by bhall43
Less mystery makes building much less interesting. If they were going to lay out all the numbers in the game to me I'd much rather buy premade players.

I disagree. I find the lack of information to be annoying at best. Detailed information on what skills do isn't hidden because it's "good gaming theory". This is a PvP game. PvP games health are determined by their balancing. Information is hidden because it requires extra work to expose it to the player. It would also generate additional balancing work once the playerbase digests the information and provides informed balancing recommendations. Selling it as "mystery" is cheaper and easier than providing the information.

I'm of the opinion we ought to be able to see a log of all our players rolls on everything throughout a play. How our skills impact those rolls. Everything. If we can't get a log, we at least ought be able to see what those rolls could be and how they interact. We ought not have to create throwaway players just to find out how much an attribute change will impact skill caps or costs. Surely it'd be better to not have us cluttering up the database with throwaway retired players to glean information that could just as easily be graphically shown on the first create player page?

It's pretty hefty.

Comparing 20 yard straight sprints between 100 and 50 energy is a pretty bad comparison. Sprinting doesn't have nearly as much impact as it does in GLB Classic, so even if it reduces your sprinting by 20-30%, 80 vs 65 sprinting isn't THAT huge of a difference...but having the cumulative effect 20% reduced receiving, quickness, sprinting, vertical, etc starts to add up.

Disclaimer: These aren't the actual percents

Originally posted by Corndog
It'd pretty hefty.

Comparing 20 yard straight sprints between 100 and 50 energy is a pretty bad comparison. Sprinting doesn't have nearly as much impact as it does in GLB Classic, so even if it reduces your sprinting by 20-30%, 80 vs 65 sprinting isn't THAT huge of a difference...but having the cumulative effect 20% reduced receiving, quickness, sprinting, vertical, etc starts to add up.

And now I'm definitely building a SS power back with 25 sprinting cap one day

100 balance, 100 power rushing, 100 intimidation, here I come!