Warrior General Games

Originally posted by H0wie Dewum
Originally posted by sekci13

blah blah blah

Mario is puttin in some serious work there.....



He's like McDonalds... over a million served

/edit

"over 3 billion served”

lol

Seriously, this isn't difficult. The designated voters for each team submit a list of 25 players, position specific. Each voter goes through the rosters and determines who they think is having the best season at each position. Stats, of course, aren't the only determining factor. A guy on a terrible defense is always on the field, racking up tackles. While a great defense sees its players suffer in the stats department. But a great defense obviously deserves to be represented on the All-Pro team. We have to trust other's judgements, and hope that with 16 submitted ballots a mistake here or there will be corrected by the majority.

If anyone is overwhelmed by the thought of totalling up 16 lists of 25 guys, I'll offer my services as the vote counter.

I would ask that you send me your ballots by PM, so no one gets ticked off if you didn't vote for their guys, and decides to retaliate by not voting for yours. And then once I receive all of the ballots I will post them publically, so there won't be any accusations that I skewed the results.

The rules are simple. You can't vote for anyone on your own team. And you place only 1 vote for each starting position (ie. 1 QB, 1 HB, 2 WR, 2 OT, etc.) Also vote for a kicker, punter, and special teams guy (can be a returner, cover guy, etc... just not a kicker or punter). That makes for a total of 25 players.

The player who gets the most votes at a specific position is 1st Team All-Pro, with the second most votes getting 2nd Team All-Pro.

Sound doable?

I still insist that submitting players from your own teams for voting availability is the way to go. It gives the leet players from all postitions on all teams at least a partial look. It does, however, implement another round of voting but in the end everyone will agree on the validity of the All-Pro Lineup.

Originally posted by H0wie Dewum
I still insist that submitting players from your own teams for voting availability is the way to go. It gives the leet players from all postitions on all teams at least a partial look. It does, however, implement another round of voting, but in the end everyone will agree on the validity of the All-Pro Lineup.

I agree. If you don't want to base it on pure stats than how are you going to know who is more valueable in that position. You cant see the builds of each guy and I am sure you dont want to go a look at hundreds of game film. I agree with Howie.

Builds have nothing to do with it. An All-Pro team doesn't choose the best athlete. It decides who is having the best season. Of course stats are a part of that, but you need to look at other factors. Those involve just a little bit of common sense, like the examples I used above. And some basic football knowledge.

And does Tillburg really need to submit a list of it's starting lineup for consideration? As a voter, when I look through the rosters I can see who the best players are on any given team. I can see the strengths of their team as well as who is having an exceptional season. We don't need to add a massive submission process that is going to do nothing to narrow the field of candidates. The voter knows, or should because we assume some level of intelligence, how to tell who the best players are on each team.

Start with stats, if that helps you get the ball rolling. And then compare those top player's contributions to his team and how effective he has been in helping his team win games.

This really is quite simple, if you'll let it be.

Originally posted by kgarlett
Builds have nothing to do with it. An All-Pro team doesn't choose the best athlete. It decides who is having the best season. Of course stats are a part of that, but you need to look at other factors. Those involve just a little bit of common sense, like the examples I used above. And some basic football knowledge.

And does Tillburg really need to submit a list of it's starting lineup for consideration? As a voter, when I look through the rosters I can see who the best players are on any given team. I can see the strengths of their team as well as who is having an exceptional season. We don't need to add a massive submission process that is going to do nothing to narrow the field of candidates. The voter knows, or should because we assume some level of intelligence, how to tell who the best players are on each team.

Start with stats, if that helps you get the ball rolling. And then compare those top player's contributions to his team and how effective he has been in helping his team win games.

This really is quite simple, if you'll let it be.

well i guess your mind is made up. How about you just do it, than we can all see who your all-pro team will be... and than not give a shit. I think that way is much easier.

Originally posted by kgarlett
And does Tillburg really need to submit a list of it's starting lineup for consideration?

The answer is no - it's obvious - however there are players on the Tilburg squad and other teams that do have quite better stats than some of the Knight's players. My suggestion is an attempt to give those players at least a look. To assume that everyone else in this league would approach the voting process like you would is just absurd.

Hopefully someone on Tillburg with a cooler and more logically head will prevail.

Yes, when it comes to doing things smarter, my mind is made up. I will always choose the best, most fair way to do this. Please unbunch your panties, because all I was saying was that stats don't give you the full picture. And when voting for who is the very best quarterback in our league, more than stats have to be taken into consideration.

I can't vote for the Knights players, as the Knight's owner. So I obviously won't be voting for any Knights.

This isn't about the Knights or Tillburg. It's about rewarding the guys who are having the best seasons. And since none of us can vote for our own guys we should be a lot more objective in deciding that.

We'll be looking at everyone - even Jamaica. We don't need 16 lists of the 25 guys to consider when I can just look at your team page and see where your strength is.

I really don't understand the objection.

Originally posted by kgarlett
I will always choose the best, most fair way to do this.

...as will I


Originally posted by kgarlett
...stats don't give you the full picture. And when voting for who is the very best quarterback in our league, more than stats have to be taken into consideration.

Agreed

Thank you for being the cooler and more logical head.

Originally posted by kgarlett
I can't vote for the Knights players, as the Knight's owner. So I obviously won't be voting for any Knights.

This isn't about the Knights or Tillburg. It's about rewarding the guys who are having the best seasons. And since none of us can vote for our own guys we should be a lot more objective in deciding that.

We'll be looking at everyone - even Jamaica. We don't need 16 lists of the 25 guys to consider when I can just look at your team page and see where your strength is.

I really don't understand the objection.

There's really no objection to your suggestions - I was simply stating that the team page may not be a "verbatim" representation of the best players on each team and to obtain those players that each team would agree to have on the All-Pro squad it would be more in the team's interests to submit a list directly.

So basically instead of allowing others to dismiss teams like Jamaica - at least Jamaica will have the opportunity to have there top boys reviewed along with the rest of the big dawgs in the league. Therefore, everyone can be be assured that the All-Pro squad is really All-Pro.

If each team has a voter who understands what it means to choose an All-Pro team, and that even bad teams may have great players who deserve recognition, we will get a true All-Pro team. And without the huge task of wading through 500 player submissions.

And if we can't trust those voters to do that, we can't trust them to be objective even with a list.

To make this work, in whatever form, will require trust. I'm trying to trust us to be objective and fair while working smarter, not harder.