Warrior General Games

Originally posted by dlee1019
AMEN to that one! Preach on brother...PREACH ON!!

Thanks lol...

Well if you include levels that explains a few guys... and allowing your guys stats to get bonuses because they don't play all the time (unlike other teams that play back-ups to allow everyone to get XP?)

I was figuring what mattered were stats only...

It's your list...

Originally posted by smallbugger
Well if include levels that explains a few guys... I was figuring what mattered were stats only...

again, not necessarily... stats were weighed in, but strength of schedule, and playing three teams with zero wins can make the stats skewed. Levels of the players involved was a factor, but not the only one. A level 16 with a good build is often better than a level 19 with an average or bad one... so levels were used as a reference point, and then stats as a secondary factor, their influence on their team, and how much the team relied on them to make big plays was also a big factor. Another was negative stats against players, dropped passes? Missed Tackles? Those things took down a player's stock to me. It would be easier if everyone had open stats, then you could compare builds + Levels + Stats = Better Player... but for common reasons, most people have closed stats.

I tried to make it fair and balanced, but more often than not, the top tier teams have more higher levels and better stats... go figure.

Originally posted by randey

SEVERAL Hitmen made that list... Go look up some stats for yourself...


I don't believe I ever said anything about how many Hitmen were on the squad, I said it was obviously bias, and I stand by that statement until shown otherwise


Originally posted by randey

If you disagree, then why don't you use some facts and present a logical case for yourself? Making that list wasn't easy and took quite some time. It isn't perfect, and it isn't foolproof, I am the first one to acknowledge that, but if you want to make a contribution to this thread, then stop complaining and use some real facts.


Let me get something straight, because maybe I am confused... you posted a list of players you claim to be the best performers in our conference, you don't show any formula nor any explanation as to why these are the "best in the conference". I respond that first you cant make a list of that nature in the middle of the season with 3 zero win teams and if you were to make one it shouldn't be so bias... I think I am clear on that part of the time line, but then you come back and say I should prove with facts what you just stated without them... surely I am misunderstanding that and your facts to back up your list will be forthcoming... but since you asked, yeah I did disagree with just about every position you have listed, I admit it was just from first glance because I haven't thoroughly scouted the entire league by player, but I have done that with the kings and when I saw so many of them listed I felt this list was certainly not indicative of the best performers for the first half of the season.

Now because like I said I don't think that you can even do a best performers at the midway point especially when you have 3 zero win teams I am only going to start to demonstrate my point by comparing the QB, HB, FB and WR spots... they come first and WR was were I got bored of doing it. Below are the positions and starter / backup (HB and WR have 4).

QB:
John hoying - SAND STORM
Martin Pinstrup - BALLERS
* Minimum 140 attempts

HB:
Greg Barclay - KINGS
Dexter Strickland - HITMEN
Tyler Hamelin - SAND STORM
Bavid Deckem - CHEETAHS
* Minimum 100 rushes

FB:
Ronnie 'Sunshine' Bass - SAND STORM
Tomko Brewski - HITMEN
* Minimum 25 rushes

WR:
Jugg Hunter - LUMBERJACKS
RayRay Moneymaker - LUMBERJACKS
Bahama Breeze - PIRATES
Michael "Tee Hee" Jackson - TYRANTS
* Minimum 30 receptions

Each player is evaluated based on 5 performances vs the strongest team played minus 0 win teams, each player must have 5 performances vs the non winless teams (sorry buddy this leaves cliffjumper out, otherwise he may have made it)

Here is my research: http://hitmen.big-poppa.net/extras/scouting/players/player_ranks.pdf

Like I said I look forward to seeing your research and explanation of methods... I myself have no interest in doing the rest of the positions because time will do that for me, because all these averages become results after the final game anyway, but this should more then be enough to show an example of how I feel the rankings based on performance should be, and I am willing to bet the rest of the positions would be just as different based on these comparisons...


Originally posted by dlee1019
No bias there! Our guys perform pretty well.

OP list = 4 kings
My list = 1 king

In just 4 positions the stats say there are 3 too many .... seems a little bias.... and i never said your guys didn't perform well... i just think, and so does the math that others have performed better over the 1st half of the season...


EDIT:
Had to make an edit i just realized when i plugged this into the team results database for SOSP it is only removing the bottom 4 teams on the schedule with a requirement of the 3 zero win teams being excluded, so these stats are based on strongest schedule - 0 win teams... i could add an additional SOSP multiplier to account for variances but i don't think the small % difference will make a huge impact on the over all rankings and again, those things will all work themselves out anyway... just for full disclosure

I'd like to highlight Pip Percival, our NT. I think he's making a great season.

How can you not include our #2 WR who's leading the entire league in TD receptions?!

Also our QB is leading the conference and 2nd in the league in passing TDs!!

Originally posted by dlee1019
How can you not include our #2 WR who's leading the entire league in TD receptions?!

all your eligible receivers are included...

surely all this talk about time invested in coming up with this list and factors that went into picking the positions... you aren't going to just use "leading the league in TD's" as a basis for argument? Of his lead leading TD's 55% were scored against the bottom of the conference, which isn't too bad, just doesn't get you on the list with the WR's listed...

Too be honest the Kings have only played 4 top 10 teams out of 9 so most of your guys stats are slanted... i mean if you really want to break it down to 0's and 1's... i really hope after all this smoke about facts this and that you guys come up with something better then "leading the entire league in TD receptions" this ain't the elephant conference and 400yds rushing and 6 TD's against a cpu team don't get you a cup of coffee let alone a nod as a "best performer"... they can do what they like over there, my guys don't play there but when you start putting out names in my conference saying they are the best at their position and I say that the list is bias and then prove it you better have something better then "leading the entire league in TD receptions"

Originally posted by dlee1019
Also our QB is leading the conference and 2nd in the league in passing TDs!!


did you wake up today and just decide you wanted to publicly get shot down over and over again in the forums... maybe you should go through the whole list and look at the numbers and then put all your objections and "but he leads in water bottles thrown" arguments together in one post so i can explain them away with logic and facts all at one time, it will save us both some time...

although at least this time you were closer, your QB actually has played pretty well... just not as well overall as 2 other QBs in the conference

I don't have the time or patience to debate with you. If league or conference leading stats aren't enough to have you listed in the top three at your position I don't know what does. We'll see how they do against you...

Originally posted by dlee1019
I don't have the time or patience to debate with you. If league or conference leading stats aren't enough to have you listed in the top three at your position I don't know what does. We'll see how they do against you...

yes we will...

i never wanted to debate with anyone, i started this off by saying this was a pointless exercise... you and your teammate decided to try and play this list off as legitimate... i simply called it as i saw it, a biased list created with 0 impartial research or factual basis... in return i was asked for facts to back up wil i said it was biased... i did and now, contrary to how it was presented as being picked based on all these criteria to make it "fair", we get "If league or conference leading stats aren't enough to have you listed in the top three at your position I don't know what does." well sorry leading the league in any category before everyone has had a chance to play 5 punching bags like your players have doesn't get you listed as top 3, leading in the categories against teams who actually have a defense, or at least the appearance of one, does.

I figure anyone can look good shadow boxing, lets see how good you fight when people are hitting you back

I completely agree with you though it will all play out in the end and we certainly will see how you do against us, because virtually everyone else on that highest performer list has been shut down by both our defenses when they face either or... and the facts state that too... but there is another little team called the sand storm who you luckily played early that according to my scouting and research presents a much tougher match up for my team then yours does, and i am just saying that to be honest, i am sure if you had them on your to play list instead of to play list you would agree, the team has certainly steadily improved and all bullshit power rankings aside they could beat either of us in any given sim...

that being said who knows we lost a 1 point game to a team on paper we had completely over matched, hell we could lose anytime as far as I am concerned... i don't put all that much stock in averages and rankings... i am a results guy, what did you do for me our against me, in real numbers... you guys were the ones who wanted to blow your own horns for playing half a schedule and half of those games against the weakest opponents, not me

So... your list is completely based on stats and strength of schedule alone???

Ok...


So how do you take into account that the Kings have given their backups more playing time than their starters when going up against much weaker teams? YET the starters still put up numbers that EASILY compete with the rest of the conference? If you like we can play every game all out and blow the stats out of the water, how will that look on your formula? Ohh wait, Martin Pinstrup with a 9 and 7 touchdown to interception ratio is better than Leonard Washington who has 5 more touchdowns and the same number of Ints and also shares much more playing time and has fewer attempts to put up big numbers?

Or what about "Bahama Breeze" a level 12 WR for the Pirates being better than: Michael "Tee Hee" Jackson, * Cliffjumper, or If You Aint First Your Last? Seriously? I'd trade you Bahama boy for any one of those three and it'd be a steal! Your system is hardly fallible and there is no need for you to flame a thread and call it biased because it doesn't meet your expectations. This thread was meant in fun, and to give some excitement to the Lion conference who didn't have a "all pro" thread while the Elephant conference had TWO! I said it wasn't perfect, and I'm sure a few big players got left off or is questionable, but if some where left off, sorry. But the ones who made it all deserved it! This is a tough conference with good players. I already acknowledged that without seeing every player's stats it'd be hard to compare who is better than who, and even then there would be controversy, so this thread was meant as a fun "congratulations" for the ones that I personally felt were the best players around. As for being biased, would you like some out of conference player who doesn't know us to try to make a list? After having played most of the players mentioned, and scouting the rest for upcoming games, I feel I have a pretty good handle on who is worthy of being here. Again, for those who didn't make it, please don't take it as an offense, maybe I'll make one at the end of the year and we'll talk it out...

Wow...

A cursory glance at Mr. Randey's list has about 17 of 45 players from his own team. I bet all 5 starters from your team that you left OFF the list will have hurt feelings now.

Classy.

If you want to give a hand job to your team, just make a warm-fuzzy post instead.

RayRay is on both lists. I'm happy. Thanks guys!!!!

Originally posted by Panther9
A cursory glance at Mr. Randey's list has about 17 of 45 players from his own team. I bet all 5 starters from your team that you left OFF the list will have hurt feelings now.

Classy.

If you want to give a hand job to your team, just make a warm-fuzzy post instead.



lol... that's exactly the informational post I was looking for. Go back to your own league, if you want, take a look at the players on the Kings compared to the rest of the conference. Outside about 5 other teams max, no other team has any chance on competing. Not surprisingly, those 5 teams compose most of the best players... duh! Every kings player listed has been fantastic and among the top of the conference in their stats and levels.

Originally posted by Maddog23
RayRay is on both lists. I'm happy. Thanks guys!!!! Ray Ray is a big time receiver and one that I hope has an absolute rotten day tomorrow.

Good luck man!