Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Gerr
Originally posted by PING72

Gerr...for as well as you do at this game, your stupidity surrounding the mechanics of the sim often astounds me.

This was one of the dumbest things I've ever read on a GLB forum, and I've seen a lot of stupid noob posts.

XD

If you understood my meaning, you wouldn't feel that way. There are people we are criticizing others for running a Scatball heavy offense, and I was simply trying to show that you can get Scatball heavy stats even if you are trying to run a balanced offense due to the way the SIM is. Thus they should blame the SIM rather than taking their anger out on the people who have adapted to how the SIM currently is.

I used myself as an example rather than "call" anyone else out as I really don't care what people think of me. Many of my 1st-3rd progression looks are to the WR/TE in hopes for a Pump-Fake or for a defender to overshoot a cut, and if those are not open, my later reads are to the HB/FB. While I would NOT consider this a Scatball style of offense, my stats are Scatball heavy because those early reads to the WR/TE are often well covered and either the QB progresses to the HB/FB reads, or often throws an incomplete pass. I have also reduced the number of screens I am calling due to defenses finally getting better at defending those.

While Scatball is effective, especially early in the season, because of the changes to the XP this season and the fact that the players are more mature during the season and get to a higher level now, I think WR/TE plays will become more effective this season. Yes there are people who try for a Scatball style of offense, meaning screen heavy and most of their reads are to the HB/FB, but there are others like myself who are trying for a more balanced style of offense, but due to the way in which the SIM works, are getting Scatball heavy stats.

My point was more towards your "proof." The QB never throws to his 1st progression in PeeWee and rarely to his 2nd unless it's a very short route. The way Bort has the game coded our guys don't hit the sweet spots until 3-5 in the progression. W/O Quick Read a HB isn't open until the 4th or 5th progression typically...but neither is a WR running a slant or a TE on a streak.

Go in and switch all your progressions so the HB/FB are the first 2 targets and the WR/TE are the 3-5 progressions. Make sure your 'dump off' is set to never. Now come back with some 'statistics' about how HB/FBs are covered much better than WR's and TE's.

My post had nothing to do in favor or against scatball (although my post in the other thread did). This post was pointed squarely towards your really bad reasoning skills and the resulting 'conclusions.'

I shouted down scatball as loud as anyone for several seasons. To the point where I crossed the line of respect between myself and several other agents. I hated the offense's I was watching on the glb field. I felt the teams that were running these were only doing so for lack of time/skill to form a game plan using conventional down field passing plays.

Enter Sumner's Wheel (The concept basically says "If you go far enough right, you end up on the left and vice versa"
So you say "wth is mike talking about now"?

Now days I am no longer running the Offense and have embraced the system Riz is running on Dirty. We run a scat heavy passing game. Then just as you think your going to sneak up and stop it, Boom, there goes a Bomb for 30+ yards and a TD to a wr/te on a crossing route. So I have come full circle and just accept whatever works. My interest now lies on Defense.

BTW, I love rainbows Ping.

Originally posted by PING72
My point was more towards your "proof." The QB never throws to his 1st progression in PeeWee and rarely to his 2nd unless it's a very short route. The way Bort has the game coded our guys don't hit the sweet spots until 3-5 in the progression. W/O Quick Read a HB isn't open until the 4th or 5th progression typically...but neither is a WR running a slant or a TE on a streak.

Go in and switch all your progressions so the HB/FB are the first 2 targets and the WR/TE are the 3-5 progressions. Make sure your 'dump off' is set to never. Now come back with some 'statistics' about how HB/FBs are covered much better than WR's and TE's.

My post had nothing to do in favor or against scatball (although my post in the other thread did). This post was pointed squarely towards your really bad reasoning skills and the resulting 'conclusions.'

Agreed..........
Most of the time the 3-5 progression is used no matter the pattern unless uncovered, completely wide open due to pump fake.

In fact I would suggest this
run a play with HB,HB,HB,HB,HB half the time and run it the other half of the time as W1, W2, HB, HB, HB and you will find that the HB gets the ball generally at the same time.......meaning it has less to do with being open or routes as it does to timing. Most of the HB plays a better as 3rd or so options as it gives them time to run past the coverage (excluding screens of course)

IMO scat ball should be used as a running game........ie force the defense to defend it. If they don't they get abused. When they do it can open up the WR and/or TE's to more single coverage and big plays (as Dirty Mike suggest). However, I think some OC just have gotten lazy and stick to it. Which is fine as they are allowed to. However, recent history has shown that as the dots get older (lvl 13 in previous seasons playoffs) with even teams this type of offense is not all that effective (i.e 17-10 championship game or whatever it was). It will be interesting to see how lvl 14-16 works out this season.

I also think scat ball came about for three reasons. One many seasons ago when the passing game became viable defenses started to shift to a double the WR's and TE on every play defense. The running game went to shit (probably the biggest reason). And the new plays added which added more screens to both sides of the field.

The biggest change that needs to happen to balance the sim is to fix the running game. I just don't think Bort can code it. If people get a consistent 3 yards it turns into slam ball. If people only consistently get 2 yards then everyone abandons the run and slings it around. There needs to be some randomness to where 0 yards or 4 yards are possible on each play. Tough to do in a player based sim.

Of course this is just an opinion so take it with a grain of salt

Originally posted by Bevo05
The biggest change that needs to happen to balance the sim is to fix the running game. I just don't think Bort can code it. If people get a consistent 3 yards it turns into slam ball. If people only consistently get 2 yards then everyone abandons the run and slings it around. There needs to be some randomness to where 0 yards or 4 yards are possible on each play. Tough to do in a player based sim.

Of course this is just an opinion so take it with a grain of salt




That's good stuff right there.

Most of my long passes to the HB out of the Pro-Slant play were at the 2nd progression. While the 1st progression is rarely thrown to, I do see the 2nd one thrown to often.