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Forum > Pro Leagues > S20 - World League - Cheese Play Overview
jdbolick
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Originally posted by tonnyrat
fwiw, the TE+HB audibles were on for Odessa vs Providence game this season and didn't fire once vs SB because of where your ROLB was placed. it's useless against CB/S blitzes and doesn't work if the LB is far enough off of the LOS. works well against the standard overload blitzes though.
ref:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2630261
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2632666
Actually the TE audible works all the time against that blitz if the QB passes the check to call it, so clearly you just didn't have it on. Seriously, look at any other game.
Edit:
It also won't audible the TE if he's the first progression, so maybe that was your problem.
Originally posted by 5STAR
i thought the screen pass was supposed to slow down the pass rush....if you have to send an extra guy into coverage does it not accomplish its intended purpose? oh wait you want to glitch blitz with no worries of any play working. Then stroke your ego because you think your defense is good.
This has been explained to you before. While Ohio State fans may know nothing about "real" football, at no level would you ever see a DE dropping into the flat because a defense thinks a screen is coming. They'll rush normally and then read if the OL are leaking out. Moreover, as far as GLB is concerned, we've already covered the fact that I was devoting at least two and sometimes three or four defenders to covering that WR screen. The problem is that nothing works except for the flat zone because of the faulty way Bort coded the play.
fwiw, the TE+HB audibles were on for Odessa vs Providence game this season and didn't fire once vs SB because of where your ROLB was placed. it's useless against CB/S blitzes and doesn't work if the LB is far enough off of the LOS. works well against the standard overload blitzes though.
ref:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2630261
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2632666
Actually the TE audible works all the time against that blitz if the QB passes the check to call it, so clearly you just didn't have it on. Seriously, look at any other game.
Edit:
It also won't audible the TE if he's the first progression, so maybe that was your problem.
Originally posted by 5STAR
i thought the screen pass was supposed to slow down the pass rush....if you have to send an extra guy into coverage does it not accomplish its intended purpose? oh wait you want to glitch blitz with no worries of any play working. Then stroke your ego because you think your defense is good.
This has been explained to you before. While Ohio State fans may know nothing about "real" football, at no level would you ever see a DE dropping into the flat because a defense thinks a screen is coming. They'll rush normally and then read if the OL are leaking out. Moreover, as far as GLB is concerned, we've already covered the fact that I was devoting at least two and sometimes three or four defenders to covering that WR screen. The problem is that nothing works except for the flat zone because of the faulty way Bort coded the play.
Edited by jdbolick on Feb 21, 2011 09:55:41
tonnyrat
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Actually the TE audible works all the time against that blitz if the QB passes the check to call it, so clearly you just didn't have it on. Seriously, look at any other game.
Edit:
It also won't audible the TE if he's the first progression, so maybe that was your problem.
lol.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2634946
Same game. Audibles are on. TE was never the first progression out of the SB including the 2 plays above for the exact reason you cited. QB failed his vision check 6 times out 6 vs that specific blitz yet correctly identified the one time the ROLB was at the LOS?
Actually the TE audible works all the time against that blitz if the QB passes the check to call it, so clearly you just didn't have it on. Seriously, look at any other game.
Edit:
It also won't audible the TE if he's the first progression, so maybe that was your problem.
lol.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2634946
Same game. Audibles are on. TE was never the first progression out of the SB including the 2 plays above for the exact reason you cited. QB failed his vision check 6 times out 6 vs that specific blitz yet correctly identified the one time the ROLB was at the LOS?
jdbolick
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Originally posted by tonnyrat
lol.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2634946
Same game. Audibles are on. TE was never the first progression out of the SB including the 2 plays above for the exact reason you cited. QB failed his vision check 6 times out 6 vs that specific blitz yet correctly identified the one time the ROLB was at the LOS?
Again, look at the other games because it worked for everyone else.
lol.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2634946
Same game. Audibles are on. TE was never the first progression out of the SB including the 2 plays above for the exact reason you cited. QB failed his vision check 6 times out 6 vs that specific blitz yet correctly identified the one time the ROLB was at the LOS?
Again, look at the other games because it worked for everyone else.
Edited by jdbolick on Feb 21, 2011 10:17:21
tonnyrat
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Again, look at the other games because it worked for everyone else. Believe me, if TE audible didn't work against that blitz then I would have used it a hell of a lot more often.
I have tested this 'problem' on the test server multiple times which is why I brought it up before. Maybe your blitz doesn't fall into that bug but it's a fact that the OAI blocking audibles can't identify blitzing LBs when they are a certain distance away from the LOS. Same goes with all CB and S blitzes.
Again, look at the other games because it worked for everyone else. Believe me, if TE audible didn't work against that blitz then I would have used it a hell of a lot more often.
I have tested this 'problem' on the test server multiple times which is why I brought it up before. Maybe your blitz doesn't fall into that bug but it's a fact that the OAI blocking audibles can't identify blitzing LBs when they are a certain distance away from the LOS. Same goes with all CB and S blitzes.
jdbolick
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Originally posted by tonnyrat
I have tested this 'problem' on the test server multiple times which is why I brought it up before. Maybe your blitz doesn't fall into that bug but it's a fact that the OAI blocking audibles can't identify blitzing LBs when they are a certain distance away from the LOS. Same goes with all CB and S blitzes.
All I can tell you is that the audible worked for other teams, and has for multiple seasons. In fact, when I first came up with that blitz in the preseason of S18, I sent it to Catch because I thought it worked too well, but he and Bort tested it out themselves and found no problems with it.
I have tested this 'problem' on the test server multiple times which is why I brought it up before. Maybe your blitz doesn't fall into that bug but it's a fact that the OAI blocking audibles can't identify blitzing LBs when they are a certain distance away from the LOS. Same goes with all CB and S blitzes.
All I can tell you is that the audible worked for other teams, and has for multiple seasons. In fact, when I first came up with that blitz in the preseason of S18, I sent it to Catch because I thought it worked too well, but he and Bort tested it out themselves and found no problems with it.
Originally posted by 5STAR
i thought the screen pass was supposed to slow down the pass rush....if you have to send an extra guy into coverage does it not accomplish its intended purpose?
oh wait you want to glitch blitz with no worries of any play working. Then stroke your ego because you think your defense is good.
His defense isn't good. He's a bottom feeder on both of the defensive charts vs the screen.
JD, you're a dumbshit
i thought the screen pass was supposed to slow down the pass rush....if you have to send an extra guy into coverage does it not accomplish its intended purpose?
oh wait you want to glitch blitz with no worries of any play working. Then stroke your ego because you think your defense is good.
His defense isn't good. He's a bottom feeder on both of the defensive charts vs the screen.
JD, you're a dumbshit
bhall43
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Tyranny...any chance you can do a run down of the entire playbook so I can better my integrity and play the game like the rest of the WL does?
jdbolick
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Originally posted by bhall43
Tyranny...any chance you can do a run down of the entire playbook so I can better my integrity and play the game like the rest of the WL does?
You barely called any screens when you kicked my ass with ESL. You don't need to cheese to win, which is why I was surprised and disappointed to see you do that yesterday.
Tyranny...any chance you can do a run down of the entire playbook so I can better my integrity and play the game like the rest of the WL does?
You barely called any screens when you kicked my ass with ESL. You don't need to cheese to win, which is why I was surprised and disappointed to see you do that yesterday.
bhall43
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Originally posted by bhall43
Tyranny...any chance you can do a run down of the entire playbook so I can better my integrity and play the game like the rest of the WL does?
Tyranny...any chance you can do a run down of the entire playbook so I can better my integrity and play the game like the rest of the WL does?
TyrannyVaunt
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Originally posted by tonnyrat
fwiw, the TE+HB audibles were on for Odessa vs Providence game this season and didn't fire once vs SB because of where your ROLB was placed. it's useless against CB/S blitzes and doesn't work if the LB is far enough off of the LOS. works well against the standard overload blitzes though.
ref:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2630261
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2632666
The new rave should be blitzing CB's. ESL has bhall's dot - and basically there is no blocking logic that will pick up that CB3 blitz. The ROLB blitz can still work - but it isn't nearly as effective as it was in the past.
If we're talking about sim balancing... I would say the CB blitz should be picked up at least by a HB/FB who is held back to block. The blocking back should be scanning outside - in on the pass rush. It doesn't seem like that is the case though...
fwiw, the TE+HB audibles were on for Odessa vs Providence game this season and didn't fire once vs SB because of where your ROLB was placed. it's useless against CB/S blitzes and doesn't work if the LB is far enough off of the LOS. works well against the standard overload blitzes though.
ref:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2630261
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565754&pbp_id=2632666
The new rave should be blitzing CB's. ESL has bhall's dot - and basically there is no blocking logic that will pick up that CB3 blitz. The ROLB blitz can still work - but it isn't nearly as effective as it was in the past.
If we're talking about sim balancing... I would say the CB blitz should be picked up at least by a HB/FB who is held back to block. The blocking back should be scanning outside - in on the pass rush. It doesn't seem like that is the case though...
jdbolick
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Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt
The new rave should be blitzing CB's. ESL has bhall's dot - and basically there is no blocking logic that will pick up that CB3 blitz. The ROLB blitz can still work - but it isn't nearly as effective as it was in the past.
If we're talking about sim balancing... I would say the CB blitz should be picked up at least by a HB/FB who is held back to block. The blocking back should be scanning outside - in on the pass rush. It doesn't seem like that is the case though...
Agreed. CB / safety blitzing needs to be looked at, but unfortunately Bort also thinks that no offensive linemen should ever miss an assignment. In real football, that's what usually causes a blitz to be successful, as two OL double one man or one just doesn't react properly to the blitzer. Missed assignments should happen more often, then maybe something other than overload or CB/S blitzing would be worthwhile. Also, it would be nice if high agility DTs could get some sort of consistent pressure. I'd like to see the importance of agility bumped for both breaking and holding pass blocks.
The new rave should be blitzing CB's. ESL has bhall's dot - and basically there is no blocking logic that will pick up that CB3 blitz. The ROLB blitz can still work - but it isn't nearly as effective as it was in the past.
If we're talking about sim balancing... I would say the CB blitz should be picked up at least by a HB/FB who is held back to block. The blocking back should be scanning outside - in on the pass rush. It doesn't seem like that is the case though...
Agreed. CB / safety blitzing needs to be looked at, but unfortunately Bort also thinks that no offensive linemen should ever miss an assignment. In real football, that's what usually causes a blitz to be successful, as two OL double one man or one just doesn't react properly to the blitzer. Missed assignments should happen more often, then maybe something other than overload or CB/S blitzing would be worthwhile. Also, it would be nice if high agility DTs could get some sort of consistent pressure. I'd like to see the importance of agility bumped for both breaking and holding pass blocks.
TyrannyVaunt
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Regarding the data on the screens... Bort should really run these type of numbers for the entire playbook and publish them. Then review fixing them accordingly.
My concern is that while some plays can be stopped - in order to stop them on a consistent basis - a good OC can really throttle your defense as he progresses with an alternate play to counter your formation used to stop the cheese.
Lincoln / Osaka game is a perfect example...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565628&pbp_id=6300788
You can see the RDE going out to stop the WR1 Screen. But bhall guessed right an ran the slam. Thankfully he only called the slam weak 2x and it was ran for 9.5yds and a 4.75ypc.
After seeing that - as a DC, I knew I had to really try and guess if he would come at me with the screen - or the slam. So fast forward to the ESL / Osaka game... And I knew that bhall was the OC again.
So I rolled the dice and kept the RDE in for inside running support and wouldn't you know... I guessed right. He ran the HB Slam Weak 27x for 74.5yds or 2.76ypc.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565636&pbp_id=11061715
The problem is... Here in the WL - if you guess wrong... And you are facing a team like Moose / MPHD / Lincoln - and they have the proper WR1 Power WR build - and an effective inside rushing game... You can literally get blown up on the OC flipping those two plays back and forth all day long. You cannot stop both of them effectively without exposing yourself to the other.
I really believe the repeat play penalty should be improved... But that is a DC talking.
My concern is that while some plays can be stopped - in order to stop them on a consistent basis - a good OC can really throttle your defense as he progresses with an alternate play to counter your formation used to stop the cheese.
Lincoln / Osaka game is a perfect example...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565628&pbp_id=6300788
You can see the RDE going out to stop the WR1 Screen. But bhall guessed right an ran the slam. Thankfully he only called the slam weak 2x and it was ran for 9.5yds and a 4.75ypc.
After seeing that - as a DC, I knew I had to really try and guess if he would come at me with the screen - or the slam. So fast forward to the ESL / Osaka game... And I knew that bhall was the OC again.
So I rolled the dice and kept the RDE in for inside running support and wouldn't you know... I guessed right. He ran the HB Slam Weak 27x for 74.5yds or 2.76ypc.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1565636&pbp_id=11061715
The problem is... Here in the WL - if you guess wrong... And you are facing a team like Moose / MPHD / Lincoln - and they have the proper WR1 Power WR build - and an effective inside rushing game... You can literally get blown up on the OC flipping those two plays back and forth all day long. You cannot stop both of them effectively without exposing yourself to the other.
I really believe the repeat play penalty should be improved... But that is a DC talking.
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