BTW, I'm not knocking DCs for either team as doing a terrible job, both defenses has played well all season and for sure are two of the best defenses in WL this season. This actually goes to show just how imbalanced the sim is this season regarding offense and defense. There were some great dots on the defensive side of the ball for both teams and they might as well not have shown up. Good defenses should have a good shot at stopping good offenses, but it's obvious that this season good offenses will just roll over good defenses.
Forum > Pro Leagues > Zeta Conference Final. Greatest Game EVER?
w_alloy
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Originally posted by datongw
Well, maybe great offensive game planning on both sides, but hardly good game planning or schemes defensively on either side. Sure there were a FEW great plays that were made by the defense, but for the most part, defenses failed miserably on both team. Good defensive schemes or game planning usually doesn't give up 675 yards and 802 yards, or allow 8 yards per carry. 3 punts combined the whole game, and 5 turnovers, 18 offensive drives that ended in points (16 of which were TD drives). 18/26 = 69% drives that ended in scores, and 61% of the drives ended up as TDs. Really hard for me to say it was good defensive game planning.
Frankly I don't think you know what you are talking about here, and the follow up post did not change that.
They only averaged the huge YPC because of a few breakaway runs. It was variance and a low sample size. Their success rate was 41%.
Both teams were cheating very hard on the pass. We were often using a 3-1-7 against single back and a 3-2-6 against I on first down. There wasn't much either team could do defensively.
Well, maybe great offensive game planning on both sides, but hardly good game planning or schemes defensively on either side. Sure there were a FEW great plays that were made by the defense, but for the most part, defenses failed miserably on both team. Good defensive schemes or game planning usually doesn't give up 675 yards and 802 yards, or allow 8 yards per carry. 3 punts combined the whole game, and 5 turnovers, 18 offensive drives that ended in points (16 of which were TD drives). 18/26 = 69% drives that ended in scores, and 61% of the drives ended up as TDs. Really hard for me to say it was good defensive game planning.
Frankly I don't think you know what you are talking about here, and the follow up post did not change that.
They only averaged the huge YPC because of a few breakaway runs. It was variance and a low sample size. Their success rate was 41%.
Both teams were cheating very hard on the pass. We were often using a 3-1-7 against single back and a 3-2-6 against I on first down. There wasn't much either team could do defensively.
Dpride59
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Originally posted by datongw
BTW, I'm not knocking DCs for either team as doing a terrible job, both defenses has played well all season and for sure are two of the best defenses in WL this season. This actually goes to show just how imbalanced the sim is this season regarding offense and defense. There were some great dots on the defensive side of the ball for both teams and they might as well not have shown up. Good defenses should have a good shot at stopping good offenses, but it's obvious that this season good offenses will just roll over good defenses.
-boost pd% into double coverage
-remove clock manager
--lower aeq stacks
-2 wl endorsed qbs
Make the top two happen, the third is happening, and idk what yorke looks like but taz is at an insane pq, that wl endorsement = god mode, can't imagine what the league MVP looks like...
Then when trailing basically both qbs are at 120% +pq, if cm gets removed, and you bump pd% (a very very small amount)when 2+ defenders have a shot at the deflection roll, passing will be nerfed in a large way, any changes that are more than what I just outlined, and the passing game will be unusable for 95% of the game.
Btw lol@ u for thinking you could have stopped, or even contained either teams passing attack... Ffs both teams knew it was gonna be 90% pass. we were in a 3-1-7 over half the game, we had eob double triple covered all game, the balls thrown at him are as indefensible as any passes in glb....
BTW, I'm not knocking DCs for either team as doing a terrible job, both defenses has played well all season and for sure are two of the best defenses in WL this season. This actually goes to show just how imbalanced the sim is this season regarding offense and defense. There were some great dots on the defensive side of the ball for both teams and they might as well not have shown up. Good defenses should have a good shot at stopping good offenses, but it's obvious that this season good offenses will just roll over good defenses.
-boost pd% into double coverage
-remove clock manager
--lower aeq stacks
-2 wl endorsed qbs
Make the top two happen, the third is happening, and idk what yorke looks like but taz is at an insane pq, that wl endorsement = god mode, can't imagine what the league MVP looks like...
Then when trailing basically both qbs are at 120% +pq, if cm gets removed, and you bump pd% (a very very small amount)when 2+ defenders have a shot at the deflection roll, passing will be nerfed in a large way, any changes that are more than what I just outlined, and the passing game will be unusable for 95% of the game.
Btw lol@ u for thinking you could have stopped, or even contained either teams passing attack... Ffs both teams knew it was gonna be 90% pass. we were in a 3-1-7 over half the game, we had eob double triple covered all game, the balls thrown at him are as indefensible as any passes in glb....
Edited by David Stern on Mar 17, 2010 04:47:29
datongw
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Originally posted by w_alloy
Both teams were cheating very hard on the pass. We were often using a 3-1-7 against single back and a 3-2-6 against I on first down. There wasn't much either team could do defensively.
Isn't this the point of my 2nd post?
Both teams were cheating very hard on the pass. We were often using a 3-1-7 against single back and a 3-2-6 against I on first down. There wasn't much either team could do defensively.
Isn't this the point of my 2nd post?
datongw
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Originally posted by David Stern
Btw lol@ u for thinking you could have stopped, or even contained either teams passing attack... Ffs both teams knew it was gonna be 90% pass. we were in a 3-1-7 over half the game, we had eob double triple covered all game, the balls thrown at him are as indefensible as any passes in glb....
Where did I say I think I could have stopped or contained either teams passing attack?
Sorry if I can't call this game the greatest game ever, it's just my opinion. But really there is no need to put words into my mouth or start to think for me. If you think a game where defenses rarely made any stops can be considered the greatest game ever played, good for you. There is really no need to be sore over people who have different opinions than you.
Btw lol@ u for thinking you could have stopped, or even contained either teams passing attack... Ffs both teams knew it was gonna be 90% pass. we were in a 3-1-7 over half the game, we had eob double triple covered all game, the balls thrown at him are as indefensible as any passes in glb....
Where did I say I think I could have stopped or contained either teams passing attack?
Sorry if I can't call this game the greatest game ever, it's just my opinion. But really there is no need to put words into my mouth or start to think for me. If you think a game where defenses rarely made any stops can be considered the greatest game ever played, good for you. There is really no need to be sore over people who have different opinions than you.
Dpride59
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Originally posted by datongw
Where did I say I think I could have stopped or contained either teams passing attack?
Sorry if I can't call this game the greatest game ever, it's just my opinion. But really there is no need to put words into my mouth or start to think for me. If you think a game where defenses rarely made any stops can be considered the greatest game ever played, good for you. There is really no need to be sore over people who have different opinions than you.
I quoted wrong post, my post was in reference to you saying it was poor defensive game planning, and I Outlined my thoughts on how close it is to being balanced.
Where did I say I think I could have stopped or contained either teams passing attack?
Sorry if I can't call this game the greatest game ever, it's just my opinion. But really there is no need to put words into my mouth or start to think for me. If you think a game where defenses rarely made any stops can be considered the greatest game ever played, good for you. There is really no need to be sore over people who have different opinions than you.
I quoted wrong post, my post was in reference to you saying it was poor defensive game planning, and I Outlined my thoughts on how close it is to being balanced.
datongw
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BTW, just because you know pass is coming and goes 3-1-7 doesn't makes it a great defensive game plan. Hell, when HHW played the Blaze, I abandoned the rush D and focused on stopping the pass as well. We got toasted, so the defense failed, and as a DC I failed. It doesn't mean I didn't give it a try or was too dumb to DC, but it is what it is, I failed to stop or contain the other team's offense. Same thing here, it doesn't mean the DCs are terrible DCs, but for this game they failed.
Could these two offenses or the passing game be stopped? Maybe not, but you never know. Just because most of us have failed doesn't mean there is no solution. Back in Season 8 Csonka and MEM slammed over everyone on their way to USAPL championship, most people thought they it was impossible to stop them, the Gamblers did. That's why guys like Hazy gets so much respect, doing what most people think they can't do.
Anyway, back in Season 8 we had 3 cracks at Csonka and co and couldn't stop them. It wasn't rocket science to know SI Slam was coming either. Hazy's D stopped them, so Hazy is a hell of a lot better DC than me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that both teams will be throwing the ball all game long, a good defensive plan is one that actually works. Running 3-1-7 all game doesn't make it a good game plan, especially when you give up a shit load of yards and points.
Could these two offenses or the passing game be stopped? Maybe not, but you never know. Just because most of us have failed doesn't mean there is no solution. Back in Season 8 Csonka and MEM slammed over everyone on their way to USAPL championship, most people thought they it was impossible to stop them, the Gamblers did. That's why guys like Hazy gets so much respect, doing what most people think they can't do.
Anyway, back in Season 8 we had 3 cracks at Csonka and co and couldn't stop them. It wasn't rocket science to know SI Slam was coming either. Hazy's D stopped them, so Hazy is a hell of a lot better DC than me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that both teams will be throwing the ball all game long, a good defensive plan is one that actually works. Running 3-1-7 all game doesn't make it a good game plan, especially when you give up a shit load of yards and points.
datongw
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Originally posted by David Stern
I quoted wrong post, my post was in reference to you saying it was poor defensive game planning, and I Outlined my thoughts on how close it is to being balanced.
Well, maybe I was too strong in my words. I'm not saying the DCs are terrible at game planning (these are two of the best defenses in GLB this season), but I just can't call it a good game plan when it obviously didn't work.
I quoted wrong post, my post was in reference to you saying it was poor defensive game planning, and I Outlined my thoughts on how close it is to being balanced.
Well, maybe I was too strong in my words. I'm not saying the DCs are terrible at game planning (these are two of the best defenses in GLB this season), but I just can't call it a good game plan when it obviously didn't work.
Dpride59
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Well said about csonka... I actually wanted to have the entire defense swap out all aeq for two pieces of ff% set to ff tackling setting, and 100 int chance, and play for the kl/ints, I figured in a game like this that would be only way to out score, but then again you saw how unstoppable passing is when either team is down.. But it was pretty unrealistic to have the entire lb/cb/safety crew find 2pieces of % ff in 48 hrs, and make that swap.. Expensive too'
GMathiasf
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meh, I watched a little and to call the defensive schemes anything more than mediocre would be a lie. Not that it was bad, but nothing really ground breaking.
That said, Stern highlighted some much needed changes that these two teams really keyed in on this season. I don't know that there was much a DC could have actually done.
So, there's no way I would describe this is as the best game in GLB history. I found what I watched to be awfully boring. Basically throw the ball up and watch a WR/TE catch it in double/triple coverage. It was really one of the worst games I've ever watched, and completely demonstrates some of the biggest problems with this season's sim.
That said, Stern highlighted some much needed changes that these two teams really keyed in on this season. I don't know that there was much a DC could have actually done.
So, there's no way I would describe this is as the best game in GLB history. I found what I watched to be awfully boring. Basically throw the ball up and watch a WR/TE catch it in double/triple coverage. It was really one of the worst games I've ever watched, and completely demonstrates some of the biggest problems with this season's sim.
JuniorMcSpiffy
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People, we are arguing about glitches in a beta game. Once the game is fully released and is no longer beta, these will be a thing of the past.
Get it? No beta? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Oh, my sides hurt...
Get it? No beta? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Oh, my sides hurt...
datongw
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Originally posted by David Stern
Well said about csonka... I actually wanted to have the entire defense swap out all aeq for two pieces of ff% set to ff tackling setting, and 100 int chance, and play for the kl/ints, I figured in a game like this that would be only way to out score, but then again you saw how unstoppable passing is when either team is down.. But it was pretty unrealistic to have the entire lb/cb/safety crew find 2pieces of % ff in 48 hrs, and make that swap.. Expensive too'
Yeah, in games like these sometime trying something extreme might be the solution. Dropping back into coverage was not the answer for us, but we are really not very good with zones, so a lot of times our safeties seems to be out of position. Maybe a zone expert like Kurieg can do a better job with setting up specific zones against certain plays. Or maybe we need to be more aggressive and come up with some crazy blitz schemes.
I think one thing doesn't help is that these two teams are so well built that most teams get blown out of water early, and with the gap in build quality, a lot of good plays might not mattered in some games. If people have enough time to go through all their games, they might be able to find somethings that work.
Looking at Valhala's games this season, two defenses had moderate success against them. Mod forced them to punt 6 times and just over 400 yards. Providence held them to 5 punts and 34 points.
Lincoln was destroyed by Valhala last time out, but they were able to move the ball a bit, if they can stay turnover free I think they have a chance at an upset. Those guys on Lincoln can game plan, so if anyone can do it, could well be these guys.
Well said about csonka... I actually wanted to have the entire defense swap out all aeq for two pieces of ff% set to ff tackling setting, and 100 int chance, and play for the kl/ints, I figured in a game like this that would be only way to out score, but then again you saw how unstoppable passing is when either team is down.. But it was pretty unrealistic to have the entire lb/cb/safety crew find 2pieces of % ff in 48 hrs, and make that swap.. Expensive too'
Yeah, in games like these sometime trying something extreme might be the solution. Dropping back into coverage was not the answer for us, but we are really not very good with zones, so a lot of times our safeties seems to be out of position. Maybe a zone expert like Kurieg can do a better job with setting up specific zones against certain plays. Or maybe we need to be more aggressive and come up with some crazy blitz schemes.
I think one thing doesn't help is that these two teams are so well built that most teams get blown out of water early, and with the gap in build quality, a lot of good plays might not mattered in some games. If people have enough time to go through all their games, they might be able to find somethings that work.
Looking at Valhala's games this season, two defenses had moderate success against them. Mod forced them to punt 6 times and just over 400 yards. Providence held them to 5 punts and 34 points.
Lincoln was destroyed by Valhala last time out, but they were able to move the ball a bit, if they can stay turnover free I think they have a chance at an upset. Those guys on Lincoln can game plan, so if anyone can do it, could well be these guys.
jdbolick
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Originally posted by datongw
Looking at Valhala's games this season, two defenses had moderate success against them. Mod forced them to punt 6 times and just over 400 yards. Providence held them to 5 punts and 34 points.
That's the part I don't get. I know that part of our success came from alloy being a little lazy with play-calling, so I was able to key on certain tendencies. Plus they still completed an absurdly high percentage of their passes, so it may have been just as bad if Valhalla had gone all-pass against us. But I still would have expected a little better from such ridiculously talented defenses. In any case, still the "best" game I've ever seen regardless of any flaws. It may not mean good things for the sim as a whole, but for an individual dotball game I'd rather watch 66-59 than 10-7.
Looking at Valhala's games this season, two defenses had moderate success against them. Mod forced them to punt 6 times and just over 400 yards. Providence held them to 5 punts and 34 points.
That's the part I don't get. I know that part of our success came from alloy being a little lazy with play-calling, so I was able to key on certain tendencies. Plus they still completed an absurdly high percentage of their passes, so it may have been just as bad if Valhalla had gone all-pass against us. But I still would have expected a little better from such ridiculously talented defenses. In any case, still the "best" game I've ever seen regardless of any flaws. It may not mean good things for the sim as a whole, but for an individual dotball game I'd rather watch 66-59 than 10-7.
Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by datongw
Looking at Valhala's games this season, two defenses had moderate success against them. Mod forced them to punt 6 times and just over 400 yards. Providence held them to 5 punts and 34 points.
That's the part I don't get. I know that part of our success came from alloy being a little lazy with play-calling, so I was able to key on certain tendencies. Plus they still completed an absurdly high percentage of their passes, so it may have been just as bad if Valhalla had gone all-pass against us. But I still would have expected a little better from such ridiculously talented defenses. In any case, still the "best" game I've ever seen regardless of any flaws. It may not mean good things for the sim as a whole, but for an individual dotball game I'd rather watch 66-59 than 10-7.
66-59 may be better than 10-7, but not as good as 33-30 or so.
Originally posted by datongw
Looking at Valhala's games this season, two defenses had moderate success against them. Mod forced them to punt 6 times and just over 400 yards. Providence held them to 5 punts and 34 points.
That's the part I don't get. I know that part of our success came from alloy being a little lazy with play-calling, so I was able to key on certain tendencies. Plus they still completed an absurdly high percentage of their passes, so it may have been just as bad if Valhalla had gone all-pass against us. But I still would have expected a little better from such ridiculously talented defenses. In any case, still the "best" game I've ever seen regardless of any flaws. It may not mean good things for the sim as a whole, but for an individual dotball game I'd rather watch 66-59 than 10-7.
66-59 may be better than 10-7, but not as good as 33-30 or so.
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