Warrior General Games

i wonder if it's even necessary to take strength past the softcap.

the protector SA only raises speed/agil/blocking. based on the descriptions, it looks like none of the pass blocking SAs rely on strength to be effective. seems to me that if the simulation used strength in pass blocking formulas then there would be something in the SAs to increase it or depend on it.

with all those points freed up, speed/agility/SAs wouldn't be hard to raise at all.

Eh, logically, strength will effect how far you bounce the DE off of you while pass blocking. If he outmuscles you, each bounce he'll close in just collapse the pocket.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=219756

Not against a dominant speed rusher or anything, but my RT pretty much controlled him all game.

This was just by swapping my str EQ to speed and getting a second piece of CE. That is +6 agi and +1 pass block tree, plus I was also set to pass block focus.

The run game suffered a bit (~0.5 YPC) and have yet to test it against the super duper speed/agility DEs, but it looked a million times better IMHO.

That's with 65 strength, 46 speed, 62 agility, 64 blocking and 49 vision. Pass tree is 2-2-2-2-1.

Originally posted by monsterkill
i wonder if it's even necessary to take strength past the softcap.

the protector SA only raises speed/agil/blocking. based on the descriptions, it looks like none of the pass blocking SAs rely on strength to be effective. seems to me that if the simulation used strength in pass blocking formulas then there would be something in the SAs to increase it or depend on it.

with all those points freed up, speed/agility/SAs wouldn't be hard to raise at all.

Yeah. Then the moment you face anything that's not a pure speed DE, and you'll be getting knocked on your ass all day long.

Originally posted by Blamo
Originally posted by monsterkill

i wonder if it's even necessary to take strength past the softcap.

the protector SA only raises speed/agil/blocking. based on the descriptions, it looks like none of the pass blocking SAs rely on strength to be effective. seems to me that if the simulation used strength in pass blocking formulas then there would be something in the SAs to increase it or depend on it.

with all those points freed up, speed/agility/SAs wouldn't be hard to raise at all.

Yeah. Then the moment you face anything that's not a pure speed DE, and you'll be getting knocked on your ass all day long.

not to dismiss that thought, because it certainly makes sense and i wouldnt be surprised if you were right. but that's exactly what people said when DEs started ignoring strength.

i'll believe it when i see consistent replays of a lvl 30+ OT with softcap strength, 60+agil/speed, and decent pass black SAs get trucked by a strength DE. i started an OT to try it, but it'll be awhile till i can really judge him. even if a strength DE does run over you, it'll at least delay him for a split second which is more delay than current speed rushers get.

as a side benefit, it wouldnt hurt having that quickness for screens

i'll try it, but it'll be a few seasons to really judge the build

With strength that low, your run-blocking will genrally suck.

Originally posted by tautology
With strength that low, your run-blocking will genrally suck.

That would be good i.m.h.o., for it's a real trade-off then: be great at pass protection OR great at run blocking. But chances are, even with only 50 strength a DE of 80+ strength won't do much vs. this guy. That's not right either...

Why sacrifice your run game when you can just double team their good DE on the left side now? OTs should be built for your offense, not be playing "defense" against the DEs.

If you're worried about a high speed or high agility DE, just work up your agility to 1st cap, make sure blocking and strength are both 2nd capped, speed only needs to be trained imo, along with stamina... Protector (for LT's) really helps. For a RT facing an uber-agility DE build- All I could suggest would be 4-5 shock block combined with enough speed/agility to hold the DE off for only 2 seconds.After that he's gonna get past you no matter what if he's got a ton of agility or speed over you(at least they should).

Originally posted by VladtheImpaler1
If you're worried about a high speed or high agility DE, just work up your agility to 1st cap, make sure blocking and strength are both 2nd capped, speed only needs to be trained imo, along with stamina... Protector (for LT's) really helps. For a RT facing an uber-agility DE build- All I could suggest would be 4-5 shock block combined with enough speed/agility to hold the DE off for only 2 seconds.After that he's gonna get past you no matter what if he's got a ton of agility or speed over you(at least they should).

First game of the season, my RT got burned pretty bad by a speed/agility DE. My RT had 35 speed and 55 agility at the time. Since that game, I've moved EQ around to speed and agility and it's made a world of difference.

Our LT had similar speed, but only 49 agility and 5 protector... he had an even worse day. Speed is in-fact very important from what I've witnessed this season. These same builds didn't have much trouble (aside from that damn inside move sack) last season.

The real test, for me, will come in a couple days, when I will be facing the current league sack leader. Until then, I suggest all OTs get speed to near cap and keep working on agility. Buying a second set of EQ is the best route IMHO... that way if things do change, you can easily swap EQ sets.

Originally posted by VladtheImpaler1
If you're worried about a high speed or high agility DE, just work up your agility to 1st cap, make sure blocking and strength are both 2nd capped, speed only needs to be trained imo, along with stamina... Protector (for LT's) really helps. For a RT facing an uber-agility DE build- All I could suggest would be 4-5 shock block combined with enough speed/agility to hold the DE off for only 2 seconds.After that he's gonna get past you no matter what if he's got a ton of agility or speed over you(at least they should).

you don't have a guy over level 25, how would you even know? have you ever gone up against an end with 90 agility? and obviously i'm aware that a guy with 30 agility more is going to get a lot of free shots, i'm looking for somebody who's actually managed them, to see what kind of agility is necessary.

Originally posted by Warlock
The real test, for me, will come in a couple days, when I will be facing the current league sack leader. Until then, I suggest all OTs get speed to near cap and keep working on agility. Buying a second set of EQ is the best route IMHO... that way if things do change, you can easily swap EQ sets.

full set, or partial? give me an idea where you are trying to get agility to, mid 70s? 80?

Originally posted by Darren McFadden
Originally posted by Warlock

The real test, for me, will come in a couple days, when I will be facing the current league sack leader. Until then, I suggest all OTs get speed to near cap and keep working on agility. Buying a second set of EQ is the best route IMHO... that way if things do change, you can easily swap EQ sets.

full set, or partial? give me an idea where you are trying to get agility to, mid 70s? 80?

I will be at 50 speed and 62 agility for the game. I put 3 of my EQ items into speed, bought a second piece of CE (+6 agility and +1 pass tree) and I'm using a piece of AE in my 4th spot (+2 blk, +2 str and 2 first step).

I want to get agility to the 2nd cap (it's at 56 atm), but I think I'll have to work on first capping speed before that... so maybe next season after I boost. I'm also working on a 3rd set of EQ for agility. So I'll be able to throw a +18 to whatever attribute I need for a specific game (+24 if strength or agility). Mix-matching will also be an option.

Agility helps with acceleration - getting to their top speed, and also speed loss during changes in direction - that cut around the OT to the QB. It also helps DE's with shaking off blocks. I'd say most speed De's would be pushing up agility and speed, with a slight emphasis on Agility. I'd go with what packman said and be closer to a 1:1 sp/agi but a slight emphasis on agility. Problem is when DE's get a bonus to speed an agility from tunnel vision, even OT's with decent Agility/Speed can't keep up. Or that used to be the case. I really think the new changes have hurt the DE some, and more balanced builds are more effective.

I had a RG with a both agility/speed soft caped and str/block in the high 70's. I'd say an OT with that sort of build would do just fine against most DE's now.

I was recently moved to LG and will probably go head to head against Str/Agi DTS. We will see how that works out when I run into guys who have 20 points or so advantage in strength. I kind of doubt I will have trouble blocking those guys either though. As o-line I would say keep with str/blocking but have enough speed/agility to be able to make the block. Vision probably isn't that important either, unless you play RG.

The DEs don't use speed to get around you, they use them to turn the hurries into sacks. I've seen DEs with 90 agi / 50 spd kill every OT - just got more hurries than sacks though... I'll keep saying it, speed above 40 isn't the answer, you really don't need it. Agility is more than acceleration. Just because bort said that he'd be making agility your acceleration doesn't mean it is NOTHING ELSE, lol. Agility is also how well you can change direction, change direction without losing speed, etc. How fast you can turn your body, really, and it means a heck of a lot more than speed for an OT.

Originally posted by Octowned
The DEs don't use speed to get around you, they use them to turn the hurries into sacks. I've seen DEs with 90 agi / 50 spd kill every OT - just got more hurries than sacks though... I'll keep saying it, speed above 40 isn't the answer, you really don't need it. Agility is more than acceleration. Just because bort said that he'd be making agility your acceleration doesn't mean it is NOTHING ELSE, lol. Agility is also how well you can change direction, change direction without losing speed, etc. How fast you can turn your body, really, and it means a heck of a lot more than speed for an OT.

+1