Warrior General Games

Originally posted by soapbox
Originally posted by SheVegas

Originally posted by soapbox


How does getting rid of the competition make a league more competitive?

I've always wondered this.

Edit: And no, this isn't just because I'm on the LOLs right now. I was the same way the last two seasons with the 'Yotes.

E2: And this isn't an admonition of your post, BYANG. I personally think it's a pretty good idea. This is to the people that say, instead of finding a way to beat the top teams, the top teams should just leave so that there's (though they won't say it) less competition and they'll have more of a chance to win.

Lets say you Have a 500 pound sumo wrestler with 15 other 100 pound wrestlers.....That league is not competitve because the 500 pound wrestler always wins the league....By having the 500 pound wrestler join a league with other 500 pound wrestlers...It would make the league more competitive...Does that make sense???

To call that uncompetitive is a bit misleading. It's not the 500lb dude that's not competitive. It's the 100lb guys.

But what you're saying is also misleading for another reason. This is a pro league... it's where the best come to play. In real life, a good example of a pro league might be the NFL. Let's go with that analogy.

Should the Steelers of the 70s or the 49ers of the 80s (or the Packers of the 60s or the Browns of the 50s) move to another pro league because they were so dominant in that era (Steelers won 4, 49ers won 3, Packers won like 8, Browns won a bunch too)? It's a pro league, so of course not! If the best are the best, they shouldn't be faulted for their success.

Or, since you might say there's no draft, what about college? USC wins the Pac-10 pretty much anually nowadays. Should they move into another conference? Should the teams at the bottom of each BCS conference form their own conference to make things more even?

It sounds like you're saying that (using the analogy) USC and WSU wasn't a competitive game because USC wouldn't let it be competitive (because they were too good). However, the game wasn't evenly matched because USC was competitive and WSU wasn't able to compete.

In AAA or below, I'd certainly agree that the top teams should move up a league, but to be forced out of a region's PRO league because they're too good for the other PRO teams? A Pro league is supposed to be the highest level of competition, and I think everyone would agree that Lake Opeta is in the group of the highest level of competition in the Africa leagues.

This is all I have to say about the subject. I may or may not address questions (I will if they're good questions), and I'm expecting most of this post to be ignored. However, repeating it multiple times won't do any better so now that you have my opinion, I'm out. I don't think most of the argument that LOL should leave the APL is about an intellectual debate anyways.

The GLB system is WAY different than those situations. In the NFL, new players come into the league that can be just as good as those great players on the dominant team. New players in GLB, can't compete in our leage. In that scenario, those teams trying to catch the 49ers or Steelers, could only get players from other teams. The challenge with that is that teams don't give up their great players, so they'd neve be able to catch up.

In GLB some of those great players do become available, but there are so many teams vying for those players that it is basically impossible for one team to get enough of them to make a difference. Look at TLGoT, they are a great team, have great players, and great GM's. The got several players off a good USA Pro team and still got thumped by the Lego's.

The college example doesn't correlate either. Not only does the new players situation apply to college, but USC can't win champtionships by beating PAC-10 teams. They have to go play in a national title game which they can and have lost.

Originally posted by SheVegas

Originally posted by soapbox


Lets say you Have a 500 pound sumo wrestler with 15 other 100 pound wrestlers.....That league is not competitve because the 500 pound wrestler always wins the league....By having the 500 pound wrestler join a league with other 500 pound wrestlers...It would make the league more competitive...Does that make sense???

To call that uncompetitive is a bit misleading. It's not the 500lb dude that's not competitive. It's the 100lb guys.



I really like this analogy. I agree it is not the 500lb wrestlers fault, but it is not the 100lb wrestlers fault either. Both wrestlers are busting their butts to be great. The challenge is with the system or organization in which they wrestle. An organization that allows 500lb to wrestle 100lb is a joke and needs to be corrected.

I wanted them to get rid of the regions and go to 1 huge pyramid. Then the elite teams, which the Lego's are, would rise to each others level. And the lower teams, which APL has had many of, would drop down to their levels. Of the course of a few seasons everything would be more competitively balanced.

Some teams have large groups of friends that are on the team together. Bots is set up this way and it sounds like Byangs team is this way as well. Even if we could recruit the elite players to compete at the elite level, then I'm kicking my friends players to the curb.

I want to make something clear, I'm not whining, I'm not criticizing the Lego's, and I'm not saying the APL is not competitive. I am saying that the system is screwed. Bort allows organizations to work together, has no incentive for teams to not replace good players with better players, and sets up small regions where an elite team and go unchallenged. This causes the "rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer". I wish he would set it up to where the good teams chemistry gets HAMMERED for upgrading and make chemistry really affect the games. The a team would REALLY have to think about if they want to upgrade each position.

Originally posted by majech
The GLB system is WAY different than those situations. In the NFL, new players come into the league that can be just as good as those great players on the dominant team. New players in GLB, can't compete in our leage. In that scenario, those teams trying to catch the 49ers or Steelers, could only get players from other teams. The challenge with that is that teams don't give up their great players, so they'd neve be able to catch up.

In GLB some of those great players do become available, but there are so many teams vying for those players that it is basically impossible for one team to get enough of them to make a difference. Look at TLGoT, they are a great team, have great players, and great GM's. The got several players off a good USA Pro team and still got thumped by the Lego's.

The college example doesn't correlate either. Not only does the new players situation apply to college, but USC can't win champtionships by beating PAC-10 teams. They have to go play in a national title game which they can and have lost.

As per your points about new players coming in -- of course not, that's why there are D leagues, and for later guys, A, AA, and AAA leagues. It's like having a pop warner player against an NFL player. You gotta wait and develop the kid first. However, the pros are the top tier of competition, so if you're in the pro league, you shouldn't have a limit of competition.

And actually, my college analogy (the reason I used it) is one step away from being a pretty good one. If you look at each league (APL EEPL USAPL etc) as a conference, it makes sense. If Bort made there be a championship of the champions (all the pro league champs would play each other), it'd be a lot more like college (all BCS conference champs are basically guaranteed a berth in a BCS bowl game [I'm pretty sure all of them are]).

And to your 2nd post - I c wut u did thar

To me, being "competitive" means "everyone has a realistic chance to win".

"The other 15 teams match up very well and can beat each other at any time" isn't competitive enough.
Maybe this is the point where we are not on the same page.

As an APL owner since Day 1, I just don't think any team has a realistic chance of beating USAORG/LOL in a playoff game for the past 3 seasons.

The other teams can talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk.
Actually, teams in Elephant Conference walk out the door faster than I can post a reply. Zambia Hungry Hungry Hippos just checked out, and it's NOT a team anymore.
I believe there is a reaason the old teams from Season 3 want to leave, and I personally believe the reason is USAORG/LOL.

Teams won AAA and get promoted here didn't know this.
In fact, if I started from AA or AAA and win my way here, I probably will be over-optimistic as well.

So, what is my suggestion?

Based on my idea of "competitiveness", sure, USAORG/LOL should leave, and go to USA Pro or somewhere else.
The rest of us can compete for the Championship in APL, not the 2nd place in APL.
There is no 2nd place in football, and in most of sports, actually. You guys know this better than me.

I would love to see TLGoT win the Championship!
They are a well-organized team promoted from AAA!

I want to see Zambia Zombies win the Championship! They are a classic team since Season 3 Day 1!!

I would love to see Ghana Rhea Infection win the Championship! I heard their owner is a female...(sorry, wrong reason.)

I would like to see ABD win the Championship for a change! You can see the fire and competitiveness(?) within SheVegas!

To tell the truth, I can stand to see either one of you other than USAORG/LOL win the Championship, even if it means my team doesn't win it.
I know you guys work as hard as I do, or as USAORG/LOL does, or at least very close to each other, so you DESERVE to have the chance to win a Championship in APL while you put money and effort in playing GLB.

In Bort's latest announcement, he provides a chance for teams to move out of the region.
It's very tempting for an owner who wants to have a realistic chance to win a Championship for my team and faithful players and friends, however, based on my observation since Season 3 Day 1, I think it's USAORG/LOL who should move out, not the rest 10 teams or so.

Will USAORG/LOL do so?

I actually agree with a lot of what majech has stated. Chemistry, IF it was important, would be a HUGE factor in player acquisitions. As it is, it doesn't affect anything a team does, if it is improving the team.

As far as the 500 lb Gorilla, what can I say, we are pigs after all.

The only way we would leave APl is if a "World League" was formed. As I stated earlier, we'd do it in a heartbeat. Not because we don't like it here, because we do (no PC shit there either), but because we want to play the best.

The one thing I find truly funny, is the Santiago Benitos, who have won the SA PRO league 4 of the 5 seasons it's been in existence, and were runner up in S2, don't have anyone in SA PRO bitching about they need to leave the league. Instead they get tons of support in tourneys outside the SA PRO league (WC Tourney and Magellans Cup for example). Inside the league everyone wants to kick their ass for sure, but they don't tell them to leave. They realize having one of the premier teams in GLB (which the Legs are not), brings the league attention and increases the visibility of the league. Spin it how you want, but this is a good thing.

And for anyone that says the Benitos have lost a playoff game, get real. 1 playoff game in 5 seasons (in the league final no less) is a lot more dominant than winning 12 playoff games, I don't care how you spin it.

I really liked Dan Marino... dude was a great guy. Doesn't mean he shoulda won the superbowl (which he never did). In the pros, the best teams come to play, and it doesn't matter how nice or mean someone is. It matters how good they are.

No one's addressed the "pro league" thing, yet. If there's a world pro league, by all means, I think everyone on the LOLs will want to join it, but until then, why should we have to move because of our success?

Who says we care about the Benitos? Who are they anyway?
I don't pay attention to SA Regions. Maybe I should, but I don't.
I pay more attention to where my team is located, which is APL, not SA PRO.

With so many flattering words about SA PRO, are USAORG/LOL moving there? You can, you know?

Originally posted by soapbox
No one's addressed the "pro league" thing, yet. If there's a world pro league, by all means, I think everyone on the LOLs will want to join it, but until then, why should we have to move because of our success?

No, you don't have to move.
We are just stating our opinions. That's the beauty of it, isn't it?

Byang, do you even know anything about any other leagues besides APL? Half of EE PRO was CPU. Half of USA PRO has gone CPU. You think because 2 or 3 teams in APL are CPU it's because of one team? Fine, that's your opinion. I'd say get out more, and take a look around. It's a GLB wide problem, not an APL problem. As much as you think we are responsible for death, famine, war, and high gas prices, we are not the cause for owners selling teams in APL, or all over GLB. And until someone comes out and says, "We quit because of LOL", I maintain that it's a fairy tale you believe in.

And since you don't like being in a region with the Legs you can move to, you know.

Originally posted by BYANG
Originally posted by soapbox

No one's addressed the "pro league" thing, yet. If there's a world pro league, by all means, I think everyone on the LOLs will want to join it, but until then, why should we have to move because of our success?

No, you don't have to move.
We are just stating our opinions. That's the beauty of it, isn't it?

Well, as I said, I have no problem with your post, personally. I just think that people saying that the LOLs are too good and should leave a PRO league is a bit much.

I'm stating my opinion to get it out there, then I'll be quiet.

I'm not one for trashtalking in video games anyways. I took a chance (and broke the mold) with my CB build, and I'm kind of happy it paid off. Otherwise, I doubt I'd even check the forums.

I hate to say this but the LOL just got that much stronger as I have move a few of my players from the Galaxy Aces to the LOL.

Here is hoping LOL repeats again next season.

Well, I do get out. Check my profile and the teams I'm associated with.

Plus, I happen to know the team who won 3 straight Championship through AA to AAA to Western Europe PRO league. No team stopped them like USAORG/LOL stopped TMW or TLGoT.

So, you have your story, I have mine. Nobody is spinning it.

None of my players are in SA, though(At least I think so...). I feel strange about this one, too.

Originally posted by Lefty Wall
I hate to say this but the LOL just got that much stronger as I have move a few of my players from the Galaxy Aces to the LOL.

Here is hoping LOL repeats again next season.

Haha! I do agree that rich get richer in GLB!

I have none in SEA or Oceania. It happens. It's just you make it sound like APL is the ONLY place in GLB that teams are being sold, and that's false and completely ridiculous, imo. It happens everywhere, to a greater extent than here even.