Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
I'll reiterate that I don't care about how high a level I can achieve. I'll be playing against similar levels, not level 32s when I'm level 12 or whatever else you're suggesting.


Right, I was responding more to mandyross's post. Should have quoted it.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks

This is the thread I threw the result of the analysis in: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1005206


Forgot about that, thanks for the link.

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
Let's see. Four seasons training gets you to level 12. Another player born on the same day will be about level 32 or so. that's 20 levels of SP plus 30 SP level bonus to 22, 18 to 30 and another 4 after that.

So a true peer of this super slow build player will be 20 levels and 140 SPs behind the level 12 player. Sure the Super Slow Build had the advantage of training attributes at low levels for longer, but the true value in that is not that large; not 100 SPs large anyway. There is no way this player will even come close to competing - ever - with the normal build (obviously assuming equal boosts, play time and build). Sure the gap will close a bit as the Super Slow Build starts leveling up at a normal rate. But he can't ever catch his peer.

Please, point out where I've gone wrong here, if you see a flaw.

Of course, after 4 seasons, the lvl 12s will be worse than the lvl 32s!

I was more wondering about the comparison between the two at the 10 season mark, you mention that the gap will start to close due to the difference in the levelling up rate and I wonder exactly how close this gap will get - there is more maths to get out of this still before dismissing it entirely! I'll have a very rough go below.

When the lvl 12s start playing games and levelling up, the automatic attribute boost at each level up will be worth so much more than what the lvl 32 previously had in terms of SP. Let's work with a C for simplicity, and assume that by lvl 4 he has STR and BLK around 38. He can then dump 20 SP into them to take them up to 48, and continue to train them. Let's say at lvl 12, even with no more training he has 8 more points in each from levelling up and they are at 56. He can then throw SP into them to get them to 62.

3 seasons on, and he is around lvl 32, let's say. He has 12 levels where STR and BLK gain 1 each level up, and 8 where they gain 0.75 - around 18 points in each in total. Let's also say he dumps 5 SP into each at 3:1 ratio, as it is well worth it. In this way, we have a C with 85 STR and BLK raw 7 seasons into his career (despite only being a level 32). By level 40, they will be up to 90 raw and he will be 8.5 seasons into his career.

In comparison with the best centres around today, 5 seasons in, around level 35 or so, and I estimate the best STR / BLK raw is around 75. End of season 6: lvl 40, STR/BLK will be 78 raw, End of season 7: 81 raw, end of season 8: 84 raw (upper estimate as we don't know exactly the diminishing skill returns at levels above 40 yet.)

So, you can see from this that a well built slow-built C will have STR and BLK close to, or even above those of a well built fast-built C after 8.5 seasons,. That is what I meant when I said it will be closer than people think. I hope you understand now.

Of course, there are other things to factor in instead of just STR and BLK, and the mathematics of the complete system is a little horrendous to contemplate, but I still feel that the centres and possibly even the guards will get to a point where they will again be on the same level as players of the same age. I am glad someone here is doing the actual experiment for this so we can all see how it ends up and stop hypothesising, and I wish him good luck!

There's a lot of assumptions made in both our posts since we haven't worked the hard numbers, but let me point out a few in yours.

Originally posted by mandyross

When the lvl 12s start playing games and levelling up, the automatic attribute boost at each level up will be worth so much more than what the lvl 32 previously had in terms of SP. Let's work with a C for simplicity, and assume that by lvl 4 he has STR and BLK around 38.


Assuming you start with say 21/21 str/blk, there's no way you get those to 38 late in season 1 (which is about the time you'd hit level 4). At lvl 21 you get 44% from training on intense. Say you trained through the end of the year on intense. That's 16 trains. Ignoring that the % drops at each level, you'd get to 24 from your leveling bonus and then from training you'd get approximately 7 SPs ea, putting you at 31 (at 31 your train % for intense is 30%). You'd need to continue to train Str/blk for most of season 2 before you got it to 38 without using SPs.

Originally posted by mandyross

He can then dump 20 SP into them to take them up to 48, and continue to train them. Let's say at lvl 12, even with no more training he has 8 more points in each from levelling up and they are at 56. He can then throw SP into them to get them to 62.


Assuming you spend a little over half of season 2 training str/blk you can get both str/blk to 49 at about level 6, my guess is using roughly 26 SPs (13 in each attribute) This would actually put you at 55 in each by level 12. To get to the second cap, he would need to put 24 more (12 in ea) and get both to 61 (to go to 62 would cost 3 on ea attr. To this point he's spent 50 SPs on str/blk (and he's earned 70 in his career thus far).

Originally posted by mandyross

3 seasons on, and he is around lvl 32, let's say. He has 12 levels where STR and BLK gain 1 each level up, and 8 where they gain 0.75 - around 18 points in each in total. Let's also say he dumps 5 SP into each at 3:1 ratio, as it is well worth it.


He won't have the 30 SPs this requires until level 14. (because he's spent 50/70 so far) So at level 14, with Str/Blk both at 63, say he spends 30 in each to get them both to 68.

Originally posted by mandyross

In this way, we have a C with 85 STR and BLK raw 7 seasons into his career (despite only being a level 32). By level 40, they will be up to 90 raw and he will be 8.5 seasons into his career.


Well, not quite. from 15 to 21 They would increase one each which is 7 times, so it would be 75 at level 21. from levels 22 through 29, they increase at a .75 clip or 6 in each. From 30 through 32 they increase at a .56 clip which is 1.68. So at 32 they've increased to 82.68 natural.

Which seems to match up with today's centers when they finish season 7, if your numbers are accurate.

But, will he get from level 12 to level 32 in three seasons? My guess is that with boosting he could get to level 20 by the end of season 5, 27 by the end of season 6 and 32 by the end of 7. So we seem good there.

So unlike I first thought everything is plausible. And I agree it will be interesting to watch.

Yes, your analysis is more thorough than mine, so it is very close - possibly still favouring fast-builds a little based on your corrections.

I think we are in agreement that it will be interesting to watch

Originally posted by mandyross
Yes, your analysis is more thorough than mine, so it is very close - possibly still favouring fast-builds a little based on your corrections.

I think we are in agreement that it will be interesting to watch

This analysis is the basis for which I sat my C for his first season.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=702040

However, with a C, I am not convinced that it is worth sitting out further since I have already more or less maximized my autolevel gains. I will not be spending any more level points on Str/Blk from level 15 on. A normal C that did not sit out would probably have to spend for at least 1 more level, and possibly 2, so being 2 levels behind doesn't really cost me anything in terms of end attribute values. However, I was able to maximize the autolevel gains quickly with the C because he only has 2. If I had a player with 4 or 5 main attributes, I could be convinced that sitting out further to get more attributes to the caps at lower levels could be worth it.

As I said earlier, I expect my C to end his career about 3-5 levels behind a normal C that didn't sit out his first season. But if the C that didn't sit out wants to have str/blk as high as mine, he would have to spend many more sp than I did, which I believe easily makes up for the 3-5 levels I fell behind.

That C is awesome

Originally posted by mandyross
That C is awesome

that C is awesome for a lvl 14, but I'm not sure how he will compare to other Cs that were created at the same time.

Originally posted by Melancholy
Originally posted by mandyross

That C is awesome

that C is awesome for a lvl 14, but I'm not sure how he will compare to other Cs that were created at the same time.

oh, and I guess I should clarify, he was built with the old training system, not the current one. I'm not sure if i could repeat him with the new system, though with the 4 bonus sp in the first season, i guess I probably could.

Originally posted by Melancholy
This analysis is the basis for which I sat my C for his first season.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=702040

Strength: 67.85 Blocking: 67.95
Speed: 11 Tackling: 12.6
Agility: 16.6 Throwing: 8
Jumping: 8 Catching: 9
Stamina: 19.6 Carrying: 9
Vision: 15.6 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 15.6 Punting: 8

Using this as a reference for when my player gets to level 14. We'll see how the new training system compares to the old one.

Originally posted by Melancholy
Originally posted by Melancholy

Originally posted by mandyross


That C is awesome

that C is awesome for a lvl 14, but I'm not sure how he will compare to other Cs that were created at the same time.

oh, and I guess I should clarify, he was built with the old training system, not the current one. I'm not sure if i could repeat him with the new system, though with the 4 bonus sp in the first season, i guess I probably could.

Haha we will see. He has so many free points left though through the level ups. Out of interest/laziness - what level would he be if he wasn't slow-built.

All this talk makes me want to start a C in an attempt to theoretically maximize it's stats. Think I'll just let you guys do it though and see the results.

Keep us updated, DWB.

I like the idea and was thinking about doing it myself, but convincing someone to babysit my guys for 4 seasons hasn't been easy.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Originally posted by Melancholy

This analysis is the basis for which I sat my C for his first season.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=702040

Strength: 67.85 Blocking: 67.95
Speed: 11 Tackling: 12.6
Agility: 16.6 Throwing: 8
Jumping: 8 Catching: 9
Stamina: 19.6 Carrying: 9
Vision: 15.6 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 15.6 Punting: 8

Using this as a reference for when my player gets to level 14. We'll see how the new training system compares to the old one.

This center is 1 year younger, almost to the day:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=926124

He's not holding any SPs or Bonus Tokens, and he's got no EQ. I expect at level 14 he'll have his str and blk to 68/63 respectively. Throw in some training and My guess is he's about 15 SPs shy of the above center.

The latest example is the perfect fast-built centre. It is fascinating to compare them

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=926124

Saving this one also, for an example of a level 10:

Strength: 60 Blocking: 56
Speed: 8 Tackling: 11.8
Agility: 17.8 Throwing: 9
Jumping: 9 Catching: 8
Stamina: 12.8 Carrying: 9
Vision: 15.8 Kicking: 8
Confidence: 11.8 Punting: 9

Originally posted by qubanti
Keep us updated, DWB.

I like the idea and was thinking about doing it myself, but convincing someone to babysit my guys for 4 seasons hasn't been easy.

Of course.