Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Unspoken


Two words for you have proven to put speed DE's in there place for my team.... SHOCK BLOCK

Is there a fair consensus here that Shock Block and Cut Block are two of the more useful SA's? When I get to pumping SA's, those were the two I especially thought to look towards.

Shock block isn't going to do anything against a DE that has 80 str, 65 speed, and 70 agility. Unfortunately none of the SAs, nor blocking seem to help much. Maybe like 7 or 8 points in pass block can help.

Originally posted by rekcuf
Again, you are wrong. A number of the Elbow's sacks came against my LT, who had agility in the 50's. That's not 60, but it's not grounds for prison abuse either.

You would think speed would have very little to do with it, as the tackle operates in such a small space. Agility is everything. Makes sense.

But that's not how it played out. Speed matters in quickness too.

When I got my speed up to about 40 Haufu Gurugatuppa had a much harder time getting around me. I was able to repeatedly engage him in a way I wasn't able to earlier in the season against the Elbow. Haufu still got by me for two sacks, though.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=142714&pbp_id=4773997

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=142714&pbp_id=4779279

Agility isn't enough. Why do you think confidence is the answer? My morale has never dipped below 97.

And I am not sure why the People's Elbow's record of success should preclude him as an example of a player who successfully beats standard built tackles. Part of the reason they win so many games is becuase he's so disruptive in the pass game. If you could neutralize him, then you could move the ball consistently though the air. The question is how to neutralize him. Again, agility was not enough for me to do that. You say it's confidence or another 5 points in agility. Color me skeptical.

Dudly, to your point about builds, notice that both started to really rack up the sacks when Evasive Rushing was instituted. When they zip by my LT, it's not because he was clubbed with strength. Quite the opposite, I'm sure. He'd love for them to sit still so that he could body slam their puny little fast twitch frames.

your guy just sucks then. and no 50 agility isn't worth much. 60 agility is much better than 50 agility sir. please stop talking.

Originally posted by Darren McFadden
Shock block isn't going to do anything against a DE that has 80 str, 65 speed, and 70 agility. Unfortunately none of the SAs, nor blocking seem to help much. Maybe like 7 or 8 points in pass block can help.

That's because most linemen ignore Confidence and stamina. and think agility at 50 is good enough. most guys think they have to triple and quadruple cap str and blocking to be good.

You're a charmer.

I said agility was in the 50's not, 50.

I never said confidence wasn't important, but when you say soft capped confidence is going to be better in shifting and reengaging a block than soft capped speed, again, I am skeptical. You give me the scatastic end of an argument I didn't make by positing extremes. I thought we were talking about relative priorities. Disingenuity is a word I just made up.

I could be wrong, especially since most of us realize we’re all guessing on much of this, but it seems to me that if my morale is plummeting out to sub 40, I would walk away with more bruises than the negative one morale hit I would have gotten for losing the game, regardless.

And no, I didn’t touch SA’s. I have spent all season upping my speed, because everything else was where it should be. It was the only thing I could think of.

You’re assuming that what makes sense in the real world is how the game mechanics work. Then you adopt such certainty in your assumption. What if speed is not merely a top end rate of movement? What if, instead, your initial burst of quickness is both a function of agility and of speed? What if, in order to shift and re-engage the speed monster across from you, you need to have something for the agility to ignite, a burst of speed? I’m just guessing, but it’s based on my experience when I had good agility and poor speed.

Your all caps persuasion doesn’t change the fact that you’re simply guessing that it’s not, and that you haven’t squared off against guys like the two I mentioned. I would recommend shouting some more, though, because I’m very dim. I might get it on the fourth or so iteration.

Or if you have a quote from Bort stating either that what I put forward on the relationship between speed and agility is false or that speed is not an important priority for offensive tackles, that might work too.

Originally posted by rekcuf
You're a charmer.

I said agility was in the 50's not, 50.

I never said confidence wasn't important, but when you say soft capped confidence is going to be better in shifting and reengaging a block than soft capped speed, again, I am skeptical. You give me the scatastic end of an argument I didn't make by positing extremes. I thought we were talking about relative priorities. Disingenuity is a word I just made up.

I could be wrong, especially since most of us realize we’re all guessing on much of this, but it seems to me that if my morale is plummeting out to sub 40, I would walk away with more bruises than the negative one morale hit I would have gotten for losing the game, regardless.

And no, I didn’t touch SA’s. I have spent all season upping my speed, because everything else was where it should be. It was the only thing I could think of.

You’re assuming that what makes sense in the real world is how the game mechanics work. Then you adopt such certainty in your assumption. What if speed is not merely a top end rate of movement? What if, instead, your initial burst of quickness is both a function of agility and of speed? What if, in order to shift and re-engage the speed monster across from you, you need to have something for the agility to ignite, a burst of speed? I’m just guessing, but it’s based on my experience when I had good agility and poor speed.

Your all caps persuasion doesn’t change the fact that you’re simply guessing that it’s not, and that you haven’t squared off against guys like the two I mentioned. I would recommend shouting some more, though, because I’m very dim. I might get it on the fourth or so iteration.

Or if you have a quote from Bort stating either that what I put forward on the relationship between speed and agility is false or that speed is not an important priority for offensive tackles, that might work too.




I wasn't shouting I was just inserting and making it caps so you can see where i wrote it. and again you're wrong. IM not guessing. I know for a fact confidence makes you a better linemen than speed does. I don't have to dig up a quote from bort to know this. I spend countless hours watching replays. I am convinced by no one but myself that confidence is key to having a good offensive linemen. confidence is in the equation along with str blocking and agility, stamina to see if the d.e. can even get past your linemen. I don't know if speed is in there anywhere. It very well could be, but I know its significantly smaller than str blocking agility and confidence. Linemen with higher confidence fill out their blocking bars quicker, and fill out the overall team bar in blocking faster. that's all I have to say.

Interesting. Even if we set aside your understanding of the words fact and guess.

Does anyone have a high confidence tackle that has been able to hold a sack specialist (50+ sacks) DE at bay, when other similarly leveled players have not? That would be good evidence to have in support of UD's hypothesis.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
a good offensive lineman at any spot really only needs 30-35 speed. and that's counting a pulling right guard. So I think you may have wasted some there. I trained mine up to 31 and It's fine. still training it here and there actually.

I disagree, sort of. Against speed/agility rushers, I'd say 35 w/o equip and agility 2nd capped is good w/ a second set of reg. equip with half speed/half agility that you can strap on when facing off against that type of pass rusher. I spent about a season and a half training my LT's speed up in the mid-30s and got the 2nd set of equip and that seems to have worked.

Originally posted by rekcuf
Interesting. Even if we set aside your understanding of the words fact and guess.

Does anyone have a high confidence tackle that has been able to hold a sack specialist (50+ sacks) DE at bay, when other similarly leveled players have not? That would be good evidence to have in support of UD's hypothesis.

No, but high agility (70ish) and speed (45ish) did the trick.

Originally posted by ksmilkman
Originally posted by rekcuf

Interesting. Even if we set aside your understanding of the words fact and guess.

Does anyone have a high confidence tackle that has been able to hold a sack specialist (50+ sacks) DE at bay, when other similarly leveled players have not? That would be good evidence to have in support of UD's hypothesis.

No, but high agility (70ish) and speed (45ish) did the trick.

Speed really only comes into play, when a lineman has to pull or go across the field, to block a blitzer. Speed has hardly anything to do with stopping a D.E. sack specialist. I don't think I remember speed even being in the equation for engaging and holding a block. I could be wrong, I remember it being something like

STr VS str to see if a pancake happens first, then like confidence stamina agility vision see if you engage a block, then blocking tells you how long it will hold. I don't think speed comes into play unless the end can get past you. I believe you could have 10 speed and stop any end in the game with the right str, blocking, agility stamina, confidence and vision. Because basically, you're not moving very far. 30 speed should be more than enough.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by ksmilkman

Originally posted by rekcuf


Interesting. Even if we set aside your understanding of the words fact and guess.

Does anyone have a high confidence tackle that has been able to hold a sack specialist (50+ sacks) DE at bay, when other similarly leveled players have not? That would be good evidence to have in support of UD's hypothesis.

No, but high agility (70ish) and speed (45ish) did the trick.

Speed really only comes into play, when a lineman has to pull or go across the field, to block a blitzer. Speed has hardly anything to do with stopping a D.E. sack specialist. I don't think I remember speed even being in the equation for engaging and holding a block. I could be wrong, I remember it being something like

STr VS str to see if a pancake happens first, then like confidence stamina agility vision see if you engage a block, then blocking tells you how long it will hold. I don't think speed comes into play unless the end can get past you. I believe you could have 10 speed and stop any end in the game with the right str, blocking, agility stamina, confidence and vision. Because basically, you're not moving very far. 30 speed should be more than enough.

Logically speaking, that makes sense.

However, today I had a scrimmage against one of those crazy DE's with almost 100 sacks this year. He destroyed me. He got 12 sacks on the LT's, most of them on me. When the other LT came in he seemed to do a better job of slowing him down.

My Agility is about 15 points higher then the LT. He has a few more points of Agility then Speed, while I have almost twice as much Agility as Speed. My Agility is in the 50's.

The rest of the stats between us are all within 3 points of each other, so unless that extra point in Protect gave him a massive boost, the only obvious conclusion is that I have way too much Agility or not enough Speed, and I'm leaning toward the latter.

Originally posted by qubanti
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Originally posted by ksmilkman


Originally posted by rekcuf



Interesting. Even if we set aside your understanding of the words fact and guess.

Does anyone have a high confidence tackle that has been able to hold a sack specialist (50+ sacks) DE at bay, when other similarly leveled players have not? That would be good evidence to have in support of UD's hypothesis.

No, but high agility (70ish) and speed (45ish) did the trick.

Speed really only comes into play, when a lineman has to pull or go across the field, to block a blitzer. Speed has hardly anything to do with stopping a D.E. sack specialist. I don't think I remember speed even being in the equation for engaging and holding a block. I could be wrong, I remember it being something like

STr VS str to see if a pancake happens first, then like confidence stamina agility vision see if you engage a block, then blocking tells you how long it will hold. I don't think speed comes into play unless the end can get past you. I believe you could have 10 speed and stop any end in the game with the right str, blocking, agility stamina, confidence and vision. Because basically, you're not moving very far. 30 speed should be more than enough.

Logically speaking, that makes sense.

However, today I had a scrimmage against one of those crazy DE's with almost 100 sacks this year. He destroyed me. He got 12 sacks on the LT's, most of them on me. When the other LT came in he seemed to do a better job of slowing him down.

My Agility is about 15 points higher then the LT. He has a few more points of Agility then Speed, while I have almost twice as much Agility as Speed. My Agility is in the 50's.

The rest of the stats between us are all within 3 points of each other. Unless that extra point in Protect gave him a massive boost, the only obvious conclusion is that I have way too much Agility or not enough Speed, and I'm leaning toward the latter.

Inconclusive since he has more protect s.a. even 1 makes a big difference. Plus if the end was beating mostly you, it was your moral getting hit, not his.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Inconclusive since he has more protect s.a. even 1 makes a big difference. Plus if the end was beating mostly you, it was your moral getting hit, not his.


Beaten on play #2,3,5,6, and so on. By then you can say my morale is shot and I'm toast.

When the new LT comes in he doesn't give up a sack that quickly, plus he's up against a DE with huge +morale.

Unless protect gives a +10 boost to the stats, I am not convinced it was the difference.

My extra agility should have helped me keep the DE outside a bit longer, yet it was the other LT who did better.

Originally posted by qubanti
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Inconclusive since he has more protect s.a. even 1 makes a big difference. Plus if the end was beating mostly you, it was your moral getting hit, not his.


Beaten on play #2,3,5,6, and so on. By then you can say my morale is shot and I'm toast.

When the new LT comes in he doesn't give up a sack that quickly, plus he's up against a DE with huge +morale.

Unless protect gives a +10 boost to the stats, I am not convinced it was the difference.

My extra agility should have helped me keep the DE outside a bit longer, yet it was the other LT who did better.

Still inconclusive you're not built the same, even a few points here and there make a difference. also by the time your back up came in, his stamina was probably getting low. come on think man, there are so many factors in this game to consider.