Warrior General Games

Originally posted by ThePh33P
many are under the assumption that quickness does very very little.

Quickness is this most important skill on most players...

Originally posted by
- Weather will now always default to 70 degrees and clear during pre and off season
- Fixed and improved contract offer page so it handles different contract values properly for teams near the salary cap, instead of the button always being disabled if medium contract was unavailable
- Fixed a bug where screen passes would sometimes be thrown wildly upfield in a particular situation
- Errant pass offset variance reduced on screen passes, to try to avoid wild overthrows for what should be an easy to hit pass
- Reverted previous "minimum pass angle" sim change, and replaced it with a more elegant solution that scales min angle more realistically, based on pass distance and placement. This should mainly affect high pass power QB's, who can now throw loftier passes at more distant targets, instead of just firing bullets at the lowest angle possible every time (often directly at defenders underneath).

I appreciate listening to those who wanted the arc fixed, but Zone needs some help here in response.. either give us deep ball SA's to help or adjust the two we have to work in any zone situation so our CB/S have a chance at defending the new deep ball meta or Zone is hozed.

Originally posted by Xars

The dink-and-dunk passing game has finally, after 54 seasons, been laid to bed. You can still do it, but the game is opening up.

Now do you all see why I was banging on the stupid (10% fire rate) Zone LB INTs? You change the Pass Power Arc and you truly open up the field for the Passing game. Sure, you'll still have LBs getting INTs at times but the idea that you would build an entire defense around getting LB INTs while your CBs sucked just wasn't football.




Which is why I asked for EotP to be adjusted to not require over the top help so zone CBs could get more benefit and have a shot at playing against long bombs, it would offset any hit to the LB and spread out the success of the Int build around the team. Same with changing Zone Shark as well.

I'm not opposed to fixing pass arcs, I'm opposed to outright nerfing zone just so everyone can OP pass. You all either weren't here for or forgot about Rob's broken unstoppable Pass Game. There is no reason to sacrifice an legitimate build style into uselessness just so people can pass with ridiculous high comp rates (we did all agree on). Remove LBs jumping those picks and its easy to see Zone gets' obliviated

I do not want to return to that meta. The game need's balance to be fun for all and most importantly to be fair.

LBs still seem to be getting in on INTs... Wouldn't say zone has been nerfed to hell or anything. BSB of course is not pure zone, so would need to see what results others with pure zone teams have seen in scrims.

One thing that seems to be popping up a bit more (at least in BSB scrims), is safety INTs... Maybe they are able to get in on defending some plays that they previously were unable to...

Again, not sure yet, but I have had safeties snagging INTs in most of the scrims so far.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
LBs still seem to be getting in on INTs... Wouldn't say zone has been nerfed to hell or anything. BSB of course is not pure zone, so would need to see what results others with pure zone teams have seen in scrims.

DL, take a look at what Xars is saying. The meta will shift, while some teams will still go with the traditional pass game (currently that is what you're seeing in scrims because every QB is built that way), we are now opening up a deep ball meta that Zone has no counter for. By updating Zone's SAs it will allow CB/S a shot at defending deep passing attacks.

Zone's SAs are all currently built for mid/short pass defense situations only. I would think with this big of a buff to the pass game it wouldn't be much to ask for. Please remove the over the top requirements.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
DL, take a look at what Xars is saying. The meta will shift, while some teams will still go with the traditional pass game (currently that is what your seeing in scrims because every QB is built that way), we are now opening up a deep ball meta that Zone has no counter for. By updating Zone's SAs it will allow CB/S a shot at defending deep passing attacks.

I understand that, and I suspect there to be some shift, however, we just do not know how significant that shift will be. Does the launch angle impact the reception rates on some of those deep balls? Every offense needs consistent passing plays that are reliable to move the chains along with maybe taking some quality shots downfield. If you average 7.9 YPA but complete 40% of your passes, you are still going to punt a lot.

Still have to see what the impact is.

If QBs are completing 65% of passes and throwing for huge YPA, then yeah, we then should look in to buffing up DBs as far as coverage goes downfield.

However, as things stand, WRs often sit around 50% completion rates overall and TEs typically gloat around 60% completion rates. How those numbers change with passing Parc variability is unknown.

For zones, it may lead to additional stress of getting those QB pressures, modify PB to new meta plays that you have some deep CBs and safeties. All theoretical, but I simply am not in panic mode or anything. It was a good change IMO. We can make tweaks later if needed, but let's just see how necessary those changes might be first with data.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
I understand that, and I suspect there to be some shift, however, we just do not know how significant that shift will be. Does the launch angle impact the reception rates on some of those deep balls? Every offense needs consistent passing plays that are reliable to move the chains along with maybe taking some quality shots downfield. If you average 7.9 YPA but complete 40% of your passes, you are still going to punt a lot.

Still have to see what the impact is.

But we do know. This is directly affecting LBs and nerfing zone. We all admit that QBs were getting high completion rates in Vet despite not being stars.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
If QBs are completing 65% of passes and throwing for huge YPA, then yeah, we then should look in to buffing up DBs as far as coverage goes downfield.

However, as things stand, WRs often sit around 50% completion rates overall and TEs typically gloat around 60% completion rates. How those numbers change with passing Parc variability is unknown.

Again, this wait and see mentality *sigh*.

We know the consequences of this change, there is no speculation needed. QBs have high completion rates in Vet despite not being stars and their only consequence was Int rates which this change nullifies. By changing Zone's SAs conditions it would balance this out... LBs will no longer get high Int rates, but Zone's CB/S will start getting some. The Int totals should be about the same, but it will be evenly spread out across the defense. CB/S in Zone since its start generally do not get Ints and will get abused with this change.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
For zones, it may lead to additional stress of getting those QB pressures, modify PB to new meta plays that you have some deep CBs and safeties. All theoretical, but I simply am not in panic mode or anything. It was a good change IMO. We can make tweaks later if needed, but let's just see how necessary those changes might be first with data.

Yet we've complained about blitzing in Vet for ages, it will never be totally effective in combating passing...it has to compliment coverage and TO rates... TO rates that have taken a hit and the balance now favors high completion non star QBs.

It is a good change for passing, but it is gonna hurt game balance overall.

And once we have a bunch of data throughout the season, we should look at what may need some help or tweaks.

Really need some pure zone teams to start showing some data. It will take a boatload of games for me to have a decent amount of zone specific data.

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
One thing that seems to be popping up a bit more (at least in BSB scrims), is safety INTs... Maybe they are able to get in on defending some plays that they previously were unable to...

Again, not sure yet, but I have had safeties snagging INTs in most of the scrims so far.

The Rec Awareness nerf, and more loftyness on deep passes is allowing Safeties to have more impact I think. Kam had 3 ints in the BSB/Southside game, but more importantly was able to get in position better since the TE didn't have early rec awareness. I didn't understand why the Devs changed that, but watching scrims, I must say it's great for pass defenders with good awareness & reaction time. I do think people will have to invest more into Cov Tech now or get burned in Man D.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
DL, take a look at what Xars is saying. The meta will shift, while some teams will still go with the traditional pass game (currently that is what you're seeing in scrims because every QB is built that way), we are now opening up a deep ball meta that Zone has no counter for. By updating Zone's SAs it will allow CB/S a shot at defending deep passing attacks.

Zone's SAs are all currently built for mid/short pass defense situations only. I would think with this big of a buff to the pass game it wouldn't be much to ask for. Please remove the over the top requirements.
Xars is very knowledagble, but he also said Zone was dead last season, and was proven a bit wrong there. Same for pass accuracy not being needed. I think you should watch the scrims Myrik because from what I'm seeing, zones can be even scarier with loft added to the ball. Don't focus on LBs reaching up and snagging balls that should be going over their heads, and instead look at stacking awareness, quickness, and maybe relook at Cover Expert.

I'm all for good defensive SAs, so agree if there something that will improve the sim

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
I understand that, and I suspect there to be some shift, however, we just do not know how significant that shift will be. Does the launch angle impact the reception rates on some of those deep balls? Every offense needs consistent passing plays that are reliable to move the chains along with maybe taking some quality shots downfield. If you average 7.9 YPA but complete 40% of your passes, you are still going to punt a lot.



Just some quick maffs, but the chance of you not completing a pass with a 40% completion rate, assuming you pass on all three downs is 21.6%.

So a 78.4% chance that you will complete a pass during the drive. At a 7.9 YPA that means you're maintaining 15 yards a catch.

Obviously there are things like INTs, Fumbles, Sacks, etc. That factor into the mix. But I'd feel perfectly fine running an offense putting up those numbers in a vacuum.

Originally posted by Corndog
Wow...watched those games, took me awhile to figure out why everyone takes about 3 minutes to rotate after catching passes.

Every player that touches the ball on your team has 15 or less quickness. That's a thing.

Well I wasn't building a Screen team. I was building a Power HB rushing team with a straight ahead attack.

Guess you didn't see this thing of beauty. https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814509/1871024

Now all I have to do is make sure that Gimli catches every screen backwards and gets hit at the moment of impact.

Originally posted by Ghanima
This new change kinda screwed long passing with routes

WI Streaks play now got 12% comp rate and before - 53% ... with same Logzilla D. STH is wrong. ( this is only bugged play I found. ) this play got routes without turns...

I respec'd my CBs a day ago. I went for higher Coverage skills pulling back INT. Then again, it could just be a weird outlier data point too.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
We know the consequences of this change, there is no speculation needed. QBs have high completion rates in Vet despite not being stars and their only consequence was Int rates which this change nullifies. By changing Zone's SAs conditions it would balance this out... LBs will no longer get high Int rates, but Zone's CB/S will start getting some. The Int totals should be about the same, but it will be evenly spread out across the defense. CB/S in Zone since its start generally do not get Ints and will get abused with this change.


Hmm, to be clear, the comp rate in Vet is not "high", not at all compared to the NFL. The rushing ypc is very high, but again wouldn't want that messed with because it would be boring.

So far, int rates haven't dropped for Man or Zone in the games I've seen. Maybe the LB snagging balls out of the air have lessened, but DBs with good awareness are even more dangerous now. Nevermind that the int rate in GLB far exceeds the NFL. it came about after the passing nerf in S26, but Pass heavy teams adjusted. Passing and Pass coverage looks more fluid now, but we still need more data

Originally posted by Detroit Leos
And once we have a bunch of data throughout the season, we should look at what may need some help or tweaks.

Really need some pure zone teams to start showing some data. It will take a boatload of games for me to have a decent amount of zone specific data.

DL...

The change was made to affect passing arc because LBs were getting passes thrown directly to them and they were making picks (Bort mentions this in the patch notes).

The new mechanic changes that. LBs will now not being getting Ints at the previous rate.

There is no need for boat loads of data to understand this is a nerf to Zone.

Originally posted by Cybertron
I don't think I will ever use a zone play with 3 CBs on one side....unless I play an all pass team. One of the main reasons I play zone is so I can have a CB on the strong side to stop outside runs.

You can do that by playing Dime 3-2-6 Man Base (when it isn't bugged) too. Zone isn't the only answer. Also, on the Strong Shift play I posted, the LO is in a very good position to cover the outside run.

Originally posted by Cybertron
Wow...never heard this before

I'm taking you to a better place.

New Zone.