Warrior General Games

It just seems like all these changes take away from actually building players...and letting them sim...

The AI was getting so advanced, it was turning into who had the best gameplan anyways, and, now with the new financial systems and coaches and AEQ changes...

The game's paradigm is swinging away from the original idea way too much, IMO *shrug*


The Archetype stuff was great, the new training system has some promise....but then it just seems so pointless making new dots, because it will all depend on how a owner runs things, and how GMs do things, and how coaches focus their stuff...all dots become average no matter what you do (unless you REALLY screw up), and may the best ran team win...

Originally posted by Bort
True, I learned that pretty early on.

I think one problem with going over 100 is that we don't really want to start adding even more bonuses to players. An extra 20 or 30 morale points is going to make players even faster, stronger, etc. To the point of being really silly.

Have you seen the suggestion on the TS? Morale should impact football/mental skills until it gets so low that you just "give up", THEN it should apply to physical skills.

Originally posted by Catch22
Didn't really wing it. We talked over the concerns/complaints and tried to figure out a compromise. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we include the pre-game starting morale being impacted by salary, people are going to riot. If we do it based on effective level, people are going to riot. The only thing that seems would make every one happy is to just get rid of salaries, cash, and stadiums. That seems kind of stupid to me.

Pre-game morale should be based on some kind of equation that takes into account fame, effective level, team chemistry, team wins/losses and/or fan support (scaled based on league), and salary.

You could even come up with some kind of equation that figured out what would make a player "happy" that includes the things mentioned above along with a potential random hidden variable in order to make some players more easily "happy" and others less easily. Then compare the player's "happiness" score to the average expected salary for that position in that league. If the "happiness" score is less than the expected salary, the player gets a slight morale hit. If it's higher, the player gets a slight boost. Then add a smiley face to the player's profile/roster page that indicates the player's general level of "happiness". It won't be exact, but it'll give owners and players a good idea as to how the player is feeling and subsequently if the player is likely receiving a morale boost or penalty in games.

That's just a thought though. The main point is what I said about pre-game morale being based on a number of different, currently available pieces of data. I definitely think pre-game morale should be dependent on certain factors, I just think salary alone should not be the answer.

Originally posted by David Stern
Really dude. LISTEN TO THIS.

People didn't understand the original idea finance change. Now that it is more clear it really looks to be a good idea. E=mc2 thinks the original idea was pure genius compared to this "new proposal"

Just needed it explained better to the average users, and in a thread that was moving 2-3 pages a mn I don't think you were able to see what needed to be done, with keeping up with 3 threads and your spammed inbox.

I agree here too as I was starting to change minds in team forums....

Originally posted by Bort
Civility, please.

meh

Originally posted by Staz
Have you seen the suggestion on the TS? Morale should impact football/mental skills until it gets so low that you just "give up", THEN it should apply to physical skills.

lol you never give up.

Salaries will be determined based on three criteria:

--Effective Level
--Skill Point Value
--Position

this is too vague. can teams carry 2 QBs? 3 or 4 RBs? 55 well built players?

seems a little vague for my 55 man archetype team being built now.

Originally posted by QB Eater
The question is what skills should determine the different quality of play?
a) players who know how to build?
b) control of the AI and tactics
c) Money management?
d) player networking

To me, the emphasis should be on A and B. C should be a means of managing A and B so that the game is as fair as possible.

I don't think D should have much of an impact as it has.

In a game that is 100% social, how do you stop players from making connections and wanting to stick with those?

Originally posted by Staz
Have you seen the suggestion on the TS? Morale should impact football/mental skills until it gets so low that you just "give up", THEN it should apply to physical skills.

Yeah, but we're talking about adding bonus morale here.

Originally posted by Bort
True, I learned that pretty early on.

I think one problem with going over 100 is that we don't really want to start adding even more bonuses to players. An extra 20 or 30 morale points is going to make players even faster, stronger, etc. To the point of being really silly.

Isn't that what should be tested and tweaked until you get it where you want?

It really isn't a reason not to do it, it's just a matter of degree

Originally posted by Bort
True, I learned that pretty early on.

I think one problem with going over 100 is that we don't really want to start adding even more bonuses to players. An extra 20 or 30 morale points is going to make players even faster, stronger, etc. To the point of being really silly.


That's why a paying customer's dot should perform at 100% of his paid-upon build (and not be subject to nonsense about in-game salaries).

Originally posted by Bort
True, I learned that pretty early on.

I think one problem with going over 100 is that we don't really want to start adding even more bonuses to players. An extra 20 or 30 morale points is going to make players even faster, stronger, etc. To the point of being really silly.

Cap the effectiveness, just have the absolute number be higher. Still works for me. It takes more bad stuff for my play to deteriorate to the point it matters.

Originally posted by Bort
True, I learned that pretty early on.

I think one problem with going over 100 is that we don't really want to start adding even more bonuses to players. An extra 20 or 30 morale points is going to make players even faster, stronger, etc. To the point of being really silly.

I agree. The one good thing is morale is about to get turned up. We are also going to have 5 extra roster slots which will make room for an extra intimidating lb'er out of my 4-4 defense who is 15 helmet crash/intimidation/ and 10 snarl/AOI/trash talk

So even tho you will boost morale, I can assure you teams will be taking every step to maximize morale reducers with its effects doubled.

Originally posted by Catch22
lol you never give up.

Bad habit, I'm very persistent, even annoyingly so.

It's a very smart idea, and one that I agree with.

Originally posted by Bort
Catch made me do it!

Honestly, though, from lots of lurking and reading I've done, there's definitely plenty of people who would rather not have to deal with finances at all, or very little at least. IMO, there's three types of people who we are dealing with here, and they have different goals. They can be summed up by what mode they choose on Madden or any other sports video game:

- Hardcore players who want to think about everything. They choose "franchise" mode and select the worst team, trying to build them up. They would really like our original plan, but there's probably not as many of them as there are of the other two.
- The average player, who doesn't mind a little thinking, but doesn't want to be bothered too much. They choose "season" mode with their favorite team, and just play through, maybe making a few trades.
- The casual player, who just wants to get into it without hassle. They choose "quick play" with their favorite team vs a random opponent.

Hardcore leagues would be created with all the new bells and whistles, so the hardcore guys can get the "full" experience.
Normal leagues would need a much more simple financial system with a few choices, for the average player.
Casual or super casual leagues cover the guys who just want to play.

Average probably outweighs hardcore by a fair margin, and probably casual too.


I honestly don't know if there is an "in between" financial system out there for the average leagues. Anything stripped down doesn't really cover the bases you need in a financial system, and is therefore superfluous or limiting. Not exactly in an easy spot here.

It might be a hint that this game is too much work when I get three text messages and two calls between 12pm and 1am about GLB and people rage quitting.

Your comparison to Madden fails on so many fronts it is even funny. This game owners are dealing with REAL people not cpu players. This game we can't trade with cpu's for trades that are lopsided as hell. In this game talking one person into signing is a full day's work and a team effort.

To be honest, I've cared less and less about this game over the past 5 seasons. It became so complicated that I couldn't handle all the duties and merged. It took all of three seasons with two of the most dedicated owners in the game to decide it was still too much work for two people and merge again. Now these changes come out and I'm tired of merging and having one or two teams that can compete is just not very much fun because everyone else has already quit.

I'm not rage quitting, way too much thought has gone into this to call it that but this will be my last season on GLB. I don't look forward to logging on, I haven't even had time to watch a game in two seasons and my time spent on GLB is dealing with managing players, VAs, AEQ, money and training players. I rarely get to post on the forums, chat it up with friends I've met through this game and watch games which are the reasons I started playing in the first place.

For many seasons I've warned that this game is getting too much like work and you guys continue to pile it on. You can justify the changes by saying this will only take a couple more hours in the offseason but you just don't get it. You've been adding a couple hours to the offseason for ten seasons now, you've been adding hours to the gameplanning for seasons. It isn't the one financial change or training change that is making people mad, it is the piling on of constant bullshit that has everyone pissed. I literally spend a couple hours a day on the game and in the past spent about 12 hours a day on the game and I DON'T EVEN KNOW ALL THE RULES. Half the VAs don't work, half the SAs don't work, the sim still has simple glitches that haven't been fixed, there is still a large amount of randomness between like players and there is so much that can be improved on.

However, in the name of parity you have added VAs, added AEQ, revamped training, added tagging, added custom depth charts, added defensive playmaker, added progressions and what has it gotten you? A declining player base, massive team mergers and aliances, blow out games, gutted teams, gutted leagues, financial unbalance and unhappy ever shrinking customer base.