Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Mightyhalo
When you trigger a fake with a defender close to the ball carrier, 9 times out of 10 he will blink, and still make the tackle.

I think he hinted that you need to increase vision if this happens often.

My only worry is that increasing vision also affects pathing while rushing, so while you're juking players from farther away, your HB is also dancing around and doing stupid shit while they're farther away.

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by entropy

Originally posted by mikeandbrooke07


Originally posted by Deathblade



Originally posted by entropy




so basically free safeties would be fucked

Free Safeties with 20 strength, taking a Powerback head on...probably.

as they should

Well, let's go with your average pro level FS. 50ish strength (maybe even 60), and 60+ tackling. Should there (is there?) be some type of roll that tells this player "hey this guy is freakin huge and strong...wrap up won't work...let's go for his legs"

Hence making vision a small part of every roll for everything you do. I'm somewhat convinced this may already be the case.

I wonder if the tackling settings should play a role in where the player positions his body when tackling. I would suggest that a power tackler should mostly try to tackle a player head on and put his facemask in the ball cariers chest. The wrap-up tackler should try to position his body so he is coming from the side to make a textbook open field tackle if possible. The balanced would be somewhere in between. Of course it would have to be lose as to not make a player get out of the ball carriers way when trying to make a tackle.

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by cosmoxl

just wanted to say that I love the ideas brought up, but I disagree with one notion.

I think the required skills to tackle from the front of the ball carrier does require more strength, as was said, but I think it also requires a good amount of proper technique (tackling skill) and much more agility than from the side....and vision of course.

from the side and rear the requirements for all those skills isn't as high...but speed and possibly jumping are much more important - gotta be able to catch the guy.

I wouldn't think speed would actually be part of the roll... more part of just catching the guy? It seems more of an attribute solely focused on player movement to me.


you may be right about speed not being in the tackle roll.

Originally posted by cosmoxl
Originally posted by Mightyhalo

When you trigger a juke or fake with a defender close to the ball carrier, 9 times out of 10 he will blink, and still make the tackle.

yeah, that's another issue sort of talked about, but Bort didn't address it.

Hopefully he does because it shouldn't be that way. Since he removed mega blinks a tick, he should increase the duration of the fake slightly.

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Mightyhalo

When you trigger a fake with a defender close to the ball carrier, 9 times out of 10 he will blink, and still make the tackle.

I think he hinted that you need to increase vision if this happens often.

My only worry is that increasing vision also affects pathing while rushing, so while you're juking players from farther away, your HB is also dancing around and doing stupid shit while they're farther away.

Yeah and it's almost like for every 5 vision you have to move your slider +10 further towards power, or into power entirely to offset the elusive setting with too much vision.

While I think threads like this are a great way to improve the game (respectful discussion between developer and customer, including new innovative ideas and tweaks to existing ideas), I think it's kind of sad that they always happen in random threads in the middle of the day without any notice.

I think this game would improve greatly if we had pre-scheduled threads like this to address a specific concern or issue in the sim and ways to rectify the situation.

Or you know, if we had more than one developer...

Bort, DB...when this gets to testing change, don't ignore the impact on WRs. This won't only affect RBs. I could envision this being a small difference for most RBs but a huge gain for WRs (more likely to have defender in front of them while route running) which could just create a new imbalance.

I still think one juke should roll for all the players within the fake radius of the player, but fakes should be less frequent.

The way it's currently configured is like the player running down field constantly faking people one at a time.

Just saying that I don't really understand the rationale behind it...

Originally posted by ijg
Bort, DB...when this gets to testing change, don't ignore the impact on WRs. This won't only affect RBs. I could envision this being a small difference for most RBs but a huge gain for WRs (more likely to have defender in front of them while route running) which could just create a new imbalance.

+1

Strong WRs the new powerbacks. O_o

Originally posted by taurran
I still think one juke should roll for all the players within the fake radius of the player, but fakes should be less frequent.

The way it's currently configured is like the player running down field constantly faking people one at a time.

Just saying that I don't really understand the rationale behind it...

It's quite simple; only one player should be able to be juked every tenth of a second

Originally posted by DL24
Originally posted by taurran

I still think one juke should roll for all the players within the fake radius of the player, but fakes should be less frequent.

The way it's currently configured is like the player running down field constantly faking people one at a time.

Just saying that I don't really understand the rationale behind it...

It's quite simple; only one player should be able to be juked every tenth of a second

That doesn't make sense considering we're aiming for realism in player behavior. A juke is an action, and it affects everyone within a certain radius.

Does it make more sense that a person is constantly juking one person at a time, or that he should be executing a juke every so often, effecting everyone around him?

edit: I guess I think its more realistic for a player to execute a juke or head fake roll every time he makes a cut, and he has the potential to fake out everyone around him. This would be a much more realistic system.

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by DL24

Originally posted by taurran


I still think one juke should roll for all the players within the fake radius of the player, but fakes should be less frequent.

The way it's currently configured is like the player running down field constantly faking people one at a time.

Just saying that I don't really understand the rationale behind it...

It's quite simple; only one player should be able to be juked every tenth of a second

That doesn't make sense considering we're aiming for realism in player behavior. A juke is an action, and it affects everyone within a certain radius.

Does it make more sense that a person is constantly juking one person at a time, or that he should be executing a juke every so often, effecting everyone around him?

You'll never get it, will you? No matter how many ways you twist it, no one in real life jukes more than one player in a tenth of a second. The same holds true in this game.

Originally posted by DL24
Originally posted by taurran

Originally posted by DL24


Originally posted by taurran



I still think one juke should roll for all the players within the fake radius of the player, but fakes should be less frequent.

The way it's currently configured is like the player running down field constantly faking people one at a time.

Just saying that I don't really understand the rationale behind it...

It's quite simple; only one player should be able to be juked every tenth of a second

That doesn't make sense considering we're aiming for realism in player behavior. A juke is an action, and it affects everyone within a certain radius.

Does it make more sense that a person is constantly juking one person at a time, or that he should be executing a juke every so often, effecting everyone around him?

You'll never get it, will you? No matter how many ways you twist it, no one in real life jukes more than one player in a tenth of a second. The same holds true in this game.

I don't get it because it makes no sense. A JUKE is an action the HB performs. The reaction is a biproduct of players seeing the juke, and reacting to it.

The frequency of the juke is somehting that's currently unrealistic. HB's are juking continuously as they run. They need to make a JUKE an actual event, with an affect on everyone in the immediate area. This is realistic. 1 person per tick is not.

PS - think about it. Two defenders are running toward a rusher, he busts out a juke, and both of them overcorrect and fall to the side based on the angle of play. It's entirely plausible. I'm not sure how you think its impossible that two people are juked out by the same move.

I'm done arguing with you. As I said, you'll never get it. You demonstrated this just now by stating that it would be realistic for an HB to juke more than one defender in the span of one tenth of a second

Originally posted by DL24
Originally posted by taurran

Originally posted by DL24


Originally posted by taurran



I still think one juke should roll for all the players within the fake radius of the player, but fakes should be less frequent.

The way it's currently configured is like the player running down field constantly faking people one at a time.

Just saying that I don't really understand the rationale behind it...

It's quite simple; only one player should be able to be juked every tenth of a second

That doesn't make sense considering we're aiming for realism in player behavior. A juke is an action, and it affects everyone within a certain radius.

Does it make more sense that a person is constantly juking one person at a time, or that he should be executing a juke every so often, effecting everyone around him?

You'll never get it, will you? No matter how many ways you twist it, no one in real life jukes more than one player in a tenth of a second. The same holds true in this game.

1 person per juke makes no sense. Two people, on similar lines, can be juked by the same move anywhere but here.

1 juke per every few ticks makes a lot more sense.