You guys know Xars paid for a season of the scout right? - Would be a good tool to use before making changes or thinking something is too strong.
Edited by Adderfist on Dec 18, 2021 16:17:40
Edited by Adderfist on Dec 18, 2021 00:45:22
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > S57 Changelog Requests - and some State of the Game stuff after it
Adderfist
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You guys know Xars paid for a season of the scout right? - Would be a good tool to use before making changes or thinking something is too strong.
BoDiddley
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Originally posted by Adderfist
Sack percent in vet as of last season. - Counting League games only.
Apes - .048% (44 attempts)
Ghoulies - .02% sack rate
We are Borg - .0146%
Bengals - .012%
Screamin Eagles - .009%
Koolaid - .009%
Logzilla - .007%
Yeits - .006%
AEW Rampage- .0059%
Deadpool's Mercs for Money - .005%
Jarvis Street Coffee Squirrels - .0035%
Southside - .0025%
Assisted Living - .0019%
Nevada Wolf pack - .0017%
I postulated .008% for next season before looking at the numbers. (1 sack every 125 plays) I'm WAY to high. It's going to be more like .003%
How are you calculating sack rate? Scout gives me these numbers at a quick glance(full S56 stats)
Apes - 262 att, 29 sacks (11.1%)
Goolies - 1035 att, 111 sacks (10.7%)
We are Borg - 1413 att, 94 sacks (6.7%)
Bengals - 1350 att, 87 sacks (6.4%)
Overall it's more like 1 sack every 15-20 passes on average.
Sack percent in vet as of last season. - Counting League games only.
Apes - .048% (44 attempts)
Ghoulies - .02% sack rate
We are Borg - .0146%
Bengals - .012%
Screamin Eagles - .009%
Koolaid - .009%
Logzilla - .007%
Yeits - .006%
AEW Rampage- .0059%
Deadpool's Mercs for Money - .005%
Jarvis Street Coffee Squirrels - .0035%
Southside - .0025%
Assisted Living - .0019%
Nevada Wolf pack - .0017%
I postulated .008% for next season before looking at the numbers. (1 sack every 125 plays) I'm WAY to high. It's going to be more like .003%
How are you calculating sack rate? Scout gives me these numbers at a quick glance(full S56 stats)
Apes - 262 att, 29 sacks (11.1%)
Goolies - 1035 att, 111 sacks (10.7%)
We are Borg - 1413 att, 94 sacks (6.7%)
Bengals - 1350 att, 87 sacks (6.4%)
Overall it's more like 1 sack every 15-20 passes on average.
Xars
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I understand the concern and but the data isn't there yet. If Bort/Cdog are willing to adjust things after S57 because ABSU is too OP, then it's just a one season thing. I have it at Gold on my OLine with Pass Power at 45-50 and I'm still taking Sacks. My QB can't respec out of his 40 Pocket Awareness and that's clearly low and not helping.
I went through the Player Stats of QBs on Scout for last season at Vet.
The Sack rate low was Nevada at 1.72%. The high was 12.72% for Grape Apes. Overall for 26 teams, it was 5.01%.
The NFL rates range from about 2.5% up to 9%. Only 8 QBs are under 5.0%. 14 GLB2 teams were under that, so the GLB2 skew was less than the NFL. (Half of GLB2 teams)
At the same time, you can't have a game where DTs are getting Tick 18 Sacks with TV builds. The basics of NFL Pass Pro is that no one gets through the A & B gaps. Edge Sacks at Tick 30-32 are one thing. A-B gap Sacks at Tick 18 are another. So it's again one of those things that's "Good news you broke the game" and "Bad news you broke the game" at the same time.
I'm still in the boat that INTs are too high and Fumbles too low (except QB fumbles on Sacks - the Iron Grip SA helps some but the QB fumble rate on Sacks is what makes Sacks so deadly). As a test, I added Gold Opportunist to 3 of my S* that have the most Assisted Tackles. In 8 scrims yesterday and 146 Assisted Tackles, I haven't seen an Opportunist fumble yet. It's firing on-screen a lot but nada for results. Their new (part of the respec) Strip Tech values are 65, 70 and 80, so adjusted the values are 80, 85 and 95. When it works, it's really cool. But is it worth the SP investment? Not against INT values.
Perhaps I missed one. There's one open field tackle by my S*FS that resulted in a fumble so it could have been from Strip (or Power Tackling - dunno) but Opportunist didn't fire. The SA reminds me of Swat Down.
I went through the Player Stats of QBs on Scout for last season at Vet.
The Sack rate low was Nevada at 1.72%. The high was 12.72% for Grape Apes. Overall for 26 teams, it was 5.01%.
The NFL rates range from about 2.5% up to 9%. Only 8 QBs are under 5.0%. 14 GLB2 teams were under that, so the GLB2 skew was less than the NFL. (Half of GLB2 teams)
At the same time, you can't have a game where DTs are getting Tick 18 Sacks with TV builds. The basics of NFL Pass Pro is that no one gets through the A & B gaps. Edge Sacks at Tick 30-32 are one thing. A-B gap Sacks at Tick 18 are another. So it's again one of those things that's "Good news you broke the game" and "Bad news you broke the game" at the same time.
I'm still in the boat that INTs are too high and Fumbles too low (except QB fumbles on Sacks - the Iron Grip SA helps some but the QB fumble rate on Sacks is what makes Sacks so deadly). As a test, I added Gold Opportunist to 3 of my S* that have the most Assisted Tackles. In 8 scrims yesterday and 146 Assisted Tackles, I haven't seen an Opportunist fumble yet. It's firing on-screen a lot but nada for results. Their new (part of the respec) Strip Tech values are 65, 70 and 80, so adjusted the values are 80, 85 and 95. When it works, it's really cool. But is it worth the SP investment? Not against INT values.
Perhaps I missed one. There's one open field tackle by my S*FS that resulted in a fumble so it could have been from Strip (or Power Tackling - dunno) but Opportunist didn't fire. The SA reminds me of Swat Down.
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 03:32:45
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 03:31:43
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 03:31:22
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 03:21:24
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 03:20:53
dredgar
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Originally posted by Adderfist
You guys know Xars paid for a season of the scout right? - Would be a good tool to use before making changes or thinking something is too strong.
So I will point out my Oline was built to stop you guys from sacking me. I had 40 pass block power on all my Oline. But if you go back and watch my games the tunnel vision dlineman still had huge effects against my team. Whole they did not get sacks they wrecked havoc against us still.
You guys know Xars paid for a season of the scout right? - Would be a good tool to use before making changes or thinking something is too strong.
So I will point out my Oline was built to stop you guys from sacking me. I had 40 pass block power on all my Oline. But if you go back and watch my games the tunnel vision dlineman still had huge effects against my team. Whole they did not get sacks they wrecked havoc against us still.
ellix
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Originally posted by dredgar
So I will point out my Oline was built to stop you guys from sacking me. I had 40 pass block power on all my Oline. But if you go back and watch my games the tunnel vision dlineman still had huge effects against my team. Whole they did not get sacks they wrecked havoc against us still.
If you're referring to Salvo they're built to wreck havoc and not get sacks. So kind of inconclusive there.
So I will point out my Oline was built to stop you guys from sacking me. I had 40 pass block power on all my Oline. But if you go back and watch my games the tunnel vision dlineman still had huge effects against my team. Whole they did not get sacks they wrecked havoc against us still.
If you're referring to Salvo they're built to wreck havoc and not get sacks. So kind of inconclusive there.
Bretto007
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Originally posted by dredgar
So I will point out my Oline was built to stop you guys from sacking me. I had 40 pass block power on all my Oline. But if you go back and watch my games the tunnel vision dlineman still had huge effects against my team. Whole they did not get sacks they wrecked havoc against us still.
That's because 40 pass block power isn't a lot.... what am I missing here? Are you implying that 40 is a large amount?
So I will point out my Oline was built to stop you guys from sacking me. I had 40 pass block power on all my Oline. But if you go back and watch my games the tunnel vision dlineman still had huge effects against my team. Whole they did not get sacks they wrecked havoc against us still.
That's because 40 pass block power isn't a lot.... what am I missing here? Are you implying that 40 is a large amount?
Adderfist
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Originally posted by BoDiddley
How are you calculating sack rate? Scout gives me these numbers at a quick glance(full S56 stats)
Apes - 262 att, 29 sacks (11.1%)
Goolies - 1035 att, 111 sacks (10.7%)
We are Borg - 1413 att, 94 sacks (6.7%)
Bengals - 1350 att, 87 sacks (6.4%)
Overall it's more like 1 sack every 15-20 passes on average.
League games only- To much variance in ladder, games where you could end up playing 2 tiers down
How are you calculating sack rate? Scout gives me these numbers at a quick glance(full S56 stats)
Apes - 262 att, 29 sacks (11.1%)
Goolies - 1035 att, 111 sacks (10.7%)
We are Borg - 1413 att, 94 sacks (6.7%)
Bengals - 1350 att, 87 sacks (6.4%)
Overall it's more like 1 sack every 15-20 passes on average.
League games only- To much variance in ladder, games where you could end up playing 2 tiers down
Xars
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Originally posted by Adderfist
League games only- To much variance in ladder, games where you could end up playing 2 tiers down
But there are plenty of bad Vet League matchups. And it’s easy with Scout to select the games you want. So just pick the fairest 15 games and use those numbers.
League games only- To much variance in ladder, games where you could end up playing 2 tiers down
But there are plenty of bad Vet League matchups. And it’s easy with Scout to select the games you want. So just pick the fairest 15 games and use those numbers.
Raid
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Originally posted by Xars
I understand the concern and but the data isn't there yet. If Bort/Cdog are willing to adjust things after S57 because ABSU is too OP, then it's just a one season thing. I have it at Gold on my OLine with Pass Power at 45-50 and I'm still taking Sacks. My QB can't respec out of his 40 Pocket Awareness and that's clearly low and not helping.
I went through the Player Stats of QBs on Scout for last season at Vet.
The Sack rate low was Nevada at 1.72%. The high was 12.72% for Grape Apes. Overall for 26 teams, it was 5.01%.
The NFL rates range from about 2.5% up to 9%. Only 8 QBs are under 5.0%. 14 GLB2 teams were under that, so the GLB2 skew was less than the NFL. (Half of GLB2 teams)
At the same time, you can't have a game where DTs are getting Tick 18 Sacks with TV builds. The basics of NFL Pass Pro is that no one gets through the A & B gaps. Edge Sacks at Tick 30-32 are one thing. A-B gap Sacks at Tick 18 are another. So it's again one of those things that's "Good news you broke the game" and "Bad news you broke the game" at the same time.
I'm still in the boat that INTs are too high and Fumbles too low (except QB fumbles on Sacks - the Iron Grip SA helps some but the QB fumble rate on Sacks is what makes Sacks so deadly). As a test, I added Gold Opportunist to 3 of my S* that have the most Assisted Tackles. In 8 scrims yesterday and 146 Assisted Tackles, I haven't seen an Opportunist fumble yet. It's firing on-screen a lot but nada for results. Their new (part of the respec) Strip Tech values are 65, 70 and 80, so adjusted the values are 80, 85 and 95. When it works, it's really cool. But is it worth the SP investment? Not against INT values.
Perhaps I missed one. There's one open field tackle by my S*FS that resulted in a fumble so it could have been from Strip (or Power Tackling - dunno) but Opportunist didn't fire. The SA reminds me of Swat Down.
In the NFL you don't face college and high school teams in ladder matches.
I understand the concern and but the data isn't there yet. If Bort/Cdog are willing to adjust things after S57 because ABSU is too OP, then it's just a one season thing. I have it at Gold on my OLine with Pass Power at 45-50 and I'm still taking Sacks. My QB can't respec out of his 40 Pocket Awareness and that's clearly low and not helping.
I went through the Player Stats of QBs on Scout for last season at Vet.
The Sack rate low was Nevada at 1.72%. The high was 12.72% for Grape Apes. Overall for 26 teams, it was 5.01%.
The NFL rates range from about 2.5% up to 9%. Only 8 QBs are under 5.0%. 14 GLB2 teams were under that, so the GLB2 skew was less than the NFL. (Half of GLB2 teams)
At the same time, you can't have a game where DTs are getting Tick 18 Sacks with TV builds. The basics of NFL Pass Pro is that no one gets through the A & B gaps. Edge Sacks at Tick 30-32 are one thing. A-B gap Sacks at Tick 18 are another. So it's again one of those things that's "Good news you broke the game" and "Bad news you broke the game" at the same time.
I'm still in the boat that INTs are too high and Fumbles too low (except QB fumbles on Sacks - the Iron Grip SA helps some but the QB fumble rate on Sacks is what makes Sacks so deadly). As a test, I added Gold Opportunist to 3 of my S* that have the most Assisted Tackles. In 8 scrims yesterday and 146 Assisted Tackles, I haven't seen an Opportunist fumble yet. It's firing on-screen a lot but nada for results. Their new (part of the respec) Strip Tech values are 65, 70 and 80, so adjusted the values are 80, 85 and 95. When it works, it's really cool. But is it worth the SP investment? Not against INT values.
Perhaps I missed one. There's one open field tackle by my S*FS that resulted in a fumble so it could have been from Strip (or Power Tackling - dunno) but Opportunist didn't fire. The SA reminds me of Swat Down.
In the NFL you don't face college and high school teams in ladder matches.
Xars
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Originally posted by Adderfist
League games only- To much variance in ladder, games where you could end up playing 2 tiers down
Which would indicate that those numbers are therefore LOW and would be raised against all-Vet competition.
But of course that's not the case - at least not with Nevada.
In 12 League games, Sack rate of 11 out of 691 - 1.6%. INT rate of 2.6%.
Now since everyone has Scout access, let's select the "right" sample.
Team Scout - Team ID 4393 - Season 56
Let's include 2 playoff games, their 3 League losses and the LogZilla win.
Sacks - 9 out of 247 Passing plays or 3.64%. INTs - 8 out of 247 Passing plays 3.23%.
What are we discussing here?
League games only- To much variance in ladder, games where you could end up playing 2 tiers down
Which would indicate that those numbers are therefore LOW and would be raised against all-Vet competition.
But of course that's not the case - at least not with Nevada.
In 12 League games, Sack rate of 11 out of 691 - 1.6%. INT rate of 2.6%.
Now since everyone has Scout access, let's select the "right" sample.
Team Scout - Team ID 4393 - Season 56
Let's include 2 playoff games, their 3 League losses and the LogZilla win.
Sacks - 9 out of 247 Passing plays or 3.64%. INTs - 8 out of 247 Passing plays 3.23%.
What are we discussing here?
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 09:59:30
Xars
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So far in 16 scrims over the last 2 days, my LZ numbers on D are:
402 Passing plays - Comp% 57.0% - YPC of 11.87 - Sack% 9.2% - Int% 2.0% - Net YPA is 5.23
Of course, 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger is outperforming the 5-2 plays again. Playing OOP LBs with CBs is obviously better than S* DTs on the field where they are supposed to be.
Now to other issues only I care about (that's a joke
).
Anyway, I've got Gold Opportunist on 3 S* and after 183 Assisted Tackles on players with 65, 70 and 80 Strip Tech - I got 1, yes 1, Opportunist forced fumble!
Yay!
402 Passing plays - Comp% 57.0% - YPC of 11.87 - Sack% 9.2% - Int% 2.0% - Net YPA is 5.23
Of course, 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger is outperforming the 5-2 plays again. Playing OOP LBs with CBs is obviously better than S* DTs on the field where they are supposed to be.
Now to other issues only I care about (that's a joke
).Anyway, I've got Gold Opportunist on 3 S* and after 183 Assisted Tackles on players with 65, 70 and 80 Strip Tech - I got 1, yes 1, Opportunist forced fumble!
Yay!
ThePh33P
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Originally posted by Xars
Anyway, I've got Gold Opportunist on 3 S* and after 183 Assisted Tackles on players with 65, 70 and 80 Strip Tech - I got 1, yes 1, Opportunist forced fumble!
Yay!
You should have asked me the first knights team was 7 on field secondary players all with gold opportunist and 80-95 strip tech lol. Didn't really work that well lol
Anyway, I've got Gold Opportunist on 3 S* and after 183 Assisted Tackles on players with 65, 70 and 80 Strip Tech - I got 1, yes 1, Opportunist forced fumble!
Yay!
You should have asked me the first knights team was 7 on field secondary players all with gold opportunist and 80-95 strip tech lol. Didn't really work that well lol
Xars
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Originally posted by Raid
the fact that pass protection didn't need a buff and short zone defense needed attention, but we instead got a nerf to man to man coverage and a buff to pass protection.
Quite true.
Though I think Adder is off by a factor of 10x on his math. Doesn't change his point, but does change the degree.
If the Route Tech changes also apply to CBs (Cover Tech) then I think things can get better. I added some Cover Tech (50) to my CBs from the base values they had before. Still getting lit up though. 50 isn't an elite value though either.
My Passing is better but LogZilla is a poor passing team and can't take advantage of the changes like others can.
the fact that pass protection didn't need a buff and short zone defense needed attention, but we instead got a nerf to man to man coverage and a buff to pass protection.
Quite true.
Though I think Adder is off by a factor of 10x on his math. Doesn't change his point, but does change the degree.
If the Route Tech changes also apply to CBs (Cover Tech) then I think things can get better. I added some Cover Tech (50) to my CBs from the base values they had before. Still getting lit up though. 50 isn't an elite value though either.
My Passing is better but LogZilla is a poor passing team and can't take advantage of the changes like others can.
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 10:32:09
Edited by Xars on Dec 18, 2021 10:31:42
Xars
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Originally posted by ThePh33P
You should have asked me the first knights team was 7 on field secondary players all with gold opportunist and 80-95 strip tech lol. Didn't really work that well lol
I didn't do it because it works well. Rather I'm doing it to show it doesn't.
I know everyone has a Power S* HB with 95 Carry Grip, but Assisted Tackles have the same problem Double Coverage has - it doesn't generate enough value to the Defense.
And it's pretty poor that the SA is 1 for 183 considering you just get a change at recovering the fumble.
But maybe the numbers will change over the course of a full season and I've just been unlucky. The Strip Tech bump to my FS has caused a few (1-2) more fumbles so far so the mechanic works. I just don't think it works well enough.
You should have asked me the first knights team was 7 on field secondary players all with gold opportunist and 80-95 strip tech lol. Didn't really work that well lol
I didn't do it because it works well. Rather I'm doing it to show it doesn't.
I know everyone has a Power S* HB with 95 Carry Grip, but Assisted Tackles have the same problem Double Coverage has - it doesn't generate enough value to the Defense.
And it's pretty poor that the SA is 1 for 183 considering you just get a change at recovering the fumble.
But maybe the numbers will change over the course of a full season and I've just been unlucky. The Strip Tech bump to my FS has caused a few (1-2) more fumbles so far so the mechanic works. I just don't think it works well enough.
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